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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Some people tend to think that the niche of film is like any other product in how it should be marketed and that it is subject to the same forces as other products. Well no, it is not and not only is it a niche, it is one that can get in the way of selling digital products so the fight going on right in front of your nose is downright ruthless.
    It seems like that only makes sense if you think that film is a threat to digital. Surely that ship had decisively sailed by, oh, a decade ago? I think film is about as much of a concern to the digital photo market as paint is.

    As another thread points out, the real battle in digital-land is between dedicated cameras and phones. The whole camera industry is in deep yogurt from a mass-market standpoint---the film segment might actually be more stable, having already gone through its period of de-mass-commercialization. I don't think Cosina-Voigtlaender is much affected by the move to smartphones as imaging platforms, you know?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  2. #122
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    AGX, I am not sure how much you get out on a daily basis and relate to people directly because of photography but for me, it is a ton and in one of the most photographed places in the world.
    Talking to people in the most photographed places in the world does not tell you anything about what people at other places know about film or to what extend they use film.
    You will only see a fraction of people. Including those from abroad, that will likely be not representative for their country.

    As said where I live people see films on offer in their daily life. Most likely at their drugstore.


    And the same internet that seemingly tells people that there would be no more films yields a lot of retailers of film.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-11-2013 at 01:32 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #123
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Talking to people in the most photographed place in the world does not tell you anything about what people in other places know about film or to what extend they use film.
    It put you in touch with a larger group of people who are the type of people to take photographs, which does give you an idea of the kind of people out there who know about film in general, if you're going to an area where tons of people take pictures, and none of them know that film exists, that's a pretty good indicator that the normal person who doesn't go and take photographs often probably doesn't know about film either.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #124
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    You forgot to add Ilford and Fuji in there…why is that Ken?
    Well, the short answer is because this is a Kodak Alaris thread, not a Harman or Fujifilm thread. But I'm going to hold off a bit in responding further to this because I really do like Dan* and responses from others to him are coming in pretty quickly. I don't want to be accused of piling on here.



    Ken

    * Heck, I gave him one of my printing easels...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #125
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    Stone:

    The market in Europe is really different then in North America. That is the essence of what AgX is saying.

    In fact, North America is different from anywhere else.

    In further fact, Canada and Mexico are really different from the USA.

    Film could be a really healthy industry even if there wasn't a single roll sold in the USA.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #126
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    ..., if you're going to an area where tons of people take pictures, and none of them know that film exists, that's a pretty good indicator that the normal person who doesn't go and take photographs often probably doesn't know about film either.
    If the normal person does not know about film, who is still ordering those hundreds of millions of prints originating from C-41 films in Europe??
    These are common people. But meanwhile invisible with their film loaded cameras. But invisible does not mean inexistant.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-11-2013 at 01:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    Dear Miha,

    Its not an issue but just on a few points : KENTMERE Photographic did not go 'belly up' KENTMERE Photographic was a profitable company when HARMAN technology Limited bought it and it remains so to this day although now absorbed into HARMAN, KENTMERE Photographic also had a wide range of wide format inkjet products as well that HARMAN technology continue to coat.

    The KENTMERE range of products including mono RC paper, inkjet and film form an important part of our portfolio now and going forward.

    Finally, HARMAN technology Limited is based in Mobberley, CHESHIRE ( not Macclesfield although it is quite near ) this was the former ILFORD Imaging factory built in 1984 on the site of the RAJAR photo works that have been at Mobberley since 1903.

    The 6 Original Board Directors of HARMAN technology were all Senior Managers at ILFORD Imaging Limited and had ( and have ) in excess of 140 years service to ILFORD / HARMAN.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited
    Simon, thanks for chiming in and clarifying things like the above.

    On another note, I do have a couple of questions that are more in line with how this thread has coursed, I understand you may or may not be able to address them in full or at all. It goes without saying that Ilford Harman is a great example of a company who realizes what a great niche film and other analog products are and have been effective at filling that niche in a reasonably profitable way.

    So to better understand certain attributes of that success, in terms of the last 5 years of not only keeping sales of film and analog products healthy but possibly increasing those sales, which has been and continues to be most effective?

    A. Web / Social & Word of Mouth. Examples are Facebook, APUG, select Flickr user groups that surround Ilford Harman products.

    B. Web and print ad campaigns, promotions, editorial articles other paid marketing types of incentives and product press releases.

    And if it was one but is now shifting to another, what does that look like and do you believe that it is important for Ilford Harman to continue with traditional paid marketing campaigns even if not as effective as web / social / word of mouth in order to simply be visible in those places?
    Last edited by PKM-25; 11-11-2013 at 02:17 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Heck, I gave him one of my printing easels...
    And it is well used Ken, has it's own set of custom magnetic strips...:-)
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  9. #129
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    If the normal person does not know about film, who is still ordering those hundreds of millions of prints originating from C-41 films in Europe??
    These are common people. But meanwhile invisible with their film loaded cameras. But invisible does not mean inexistant.
    I'm not saying some people don't know I'm just saying that there is a majority that may think that film is no longer produced, and I'm just suggesting that you give it a try and pick about 10 people randomly next week I just kind of asked them as if you're just looking for a place to buy film and see what they say I'm just curious more than anything for a real-life test rather than assumptions.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  10. #130
    AgX
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    Maybe I'll do so...

    Another figure: statistically about every 8th German (out of 80 millions) buys one film a year over the counter.



 

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