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  1. #51

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    I agree with PKM-25. People whining about Kodachrome even today are really off putting. It is an absolute fact that Kodachrome never will come back. Every last post about Kodachrome is a complete and total waste of time, missing what is still available.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    It is an absolute fact that Kodachrome never will come back.
    It seems many of us always want what we can't have.

  3. #53

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    [QUOTE=RattyMouse;1565992]I agree with PKM-25. People whining about Kodachrome even today are really off putting. /QUOTE]

    You think that's bad. I keep pestering Ilford to re-establish Selochrome film in 116 and put it into vending machines in in railway stations for one shilling and sixpence with steam trains still running.

    Alas, nostalgia in not what it used to be


    pentaxuser

  4. #54
    donkee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Great, then talk *positively* about those products, moving film use into a positive light, not a negative one. Kodak is not bringing back E6, Plus-X or Techpan, period. So why keep asking for it, that sounds negative. I have been trying for *years* to tell people how bad this looks but you just don't get it!

    For example, about three months ago while out shooting with my Blads, I ran into a couple of photo-keen 20-somethings who were really intrigued by my cameras. We got to talking about a lot of things, including Kodak films. At the end of it all I recommended this site as a resource. About a week ago I ran into one of them in town. We got to talking about film, Kodak again and this guy mentioned that while he found a lot of good resources in terms of developing, printing, etc on this site, he was somewhat put off by people always talking about what they don't have and not being positive about what we do have.

    We all need film to stay in a positive light, this constant asking for what we don't have and never will again is a sickness and it is a sad one at that...you are totally missing the point if you continue to do this folks, really.....so stop it for once!
    I do promote Ilford and Fuji. They are the only ones left offering what a lot of us are asking for. I won't recommend Kodak to anyone for one reason only, they keep dropping product right after they say they won't. Why beat the dead Kodak horse.

    Support those who are supporting us, or I should say, most of us. I personally don't ask for anything from Kodak. They could bring back everything I loved and used, and would I go back to Kodak, nope. No use in me asking them for squat and I don't/won't. Since I can't get my favorites any longer, I have found new favorites from Fuji and Ilford. They get my business cause they offer me product that fits my needs.

    So should I run out and buy Kodak products or tell everyone what wondrous offerings the big K has to keep them afloat when they offer nothing I can see as better or even more affordable than others.

    Years ago I only used Kodak, and a lot of it. Just so you know.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkee View Post
    I do promote Ilford and Fuji. They are the only ones left offering what a lot of us are asking for. I won't recommend Kodak to anyone for one reason only, they keep dropping product right after they say they won't. Why beat the dead Kodak horse.

    Support those who are supporting us, or I should say, most of us. I personally don't ask for anything from Kodak. They could bring back everything I loved and used, and would I go back to Kodak, nope. No use in me asking them for squat and I don't/won't. Since I can't get my favorites any longer, I have found new favorites from Fuji and Ilford. They get my business cause they offer me product that fits my needs.

    So should I run out and buy Kodak products or tell everyone what wondrous offerings the big K has to keep them afloat when they offer nothing I can see as better or even more affordable than others.

    Years ago I only used Kodak, and a lot of it. Just so you know.
    My only comment is that now that this new company is on this, we should wait and not beat the "kodak sucks" drum, it's a new company, and this company might just be better, and then will still have awesome Kodak film. It is definitely possible for Ilford and Fuji and Kodak to all coexist together, and if anybody's dropping things it's actually Fuji these days, but yet I don't hear a lot of the same kind of bashing about how Fuji is killing off film, only that they are doing the right things for their business, which seems exactly what Kodak did, cut out films that they just couldn't make a profit on.

    Seems a little hypocritical doesn't it? now admittedly my favorite film company is Ilford. Their product line is stellar. Fuji has a small line really in B&W it's just Acros100... The neopan400 is gone! But nobody got angry at Fuji for killing it they simply lamented the film's passing, stop hating and Kodak, and just support it. I have a feeling this new company will actually turn it around, and as long as we continue to support it at least not bashing it, then I think that there's a good chance it will be around for a long time.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #56
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    I wonder how many of the 66,474 user names actually even check-in at least once a month. It seems to me, that only about 100 people actually participate on a several times a week basis.
    Please. You're more knowledgeable than that. You know it and I know it.

    Generating online posts to this or any other membership forum is not a prerequisite for purchasing and using film. Nor does visiting here, finding it's not your cup of tea, and not ever returning guarantee that an individual will never again purchase and use any film.

    It seems to me that it is far more damaging to film in general, and to the new Kodak Alaris in particular, to attempt to enforce blanket gag rules on all film users concerning just what film products, both current and discontinued, they are allowed to discuss. By doing so, and constantly referring to them from within that context, you guys are giving the impression that it's Alaris who is doing the blanket gagging. And that looks terrible for both you and Alaris.

    What is the harm in allowing people to wax poetic regarding their past fondness for Super-XX, Panatomic-X, Plux-X, or any of the others including, of course, Kodachrome? By allowing, and maybe even encouraging, such public discussions, it keeps the Kodak brand name on everyone's lips and minds. And with a little luck might even build a few bridges from the fond memories of using Kodak products in the past, to the potential of continuing to value, purchase, and use Kodak brand products in the future.

    Wouldn't all of you EK/Alaris supporters rather have the market (whatever its size these days) debating the merits of anything Kodak, rather than doing the same for Fujifilm? Or Ilford? Or Adox? Or Ferrania? If not, you should. It's free publicity for gawd's sake! The company on everyone's mind is the company that gets remembered at purchase time.

    Did it ever occur to you guys that by labeling photographers who want to talk about Kodak's past products as "sick" it only hurts the Kodak brand in the long run? Word of mouth, especially in the Internet age, is more valuable than gold. And marketing a brand name that "sick" consumers are forbidden to mention in public is tantamount to selling lead.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 11-08-2013 at 08:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #57
    eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkee View Post
    So should I run out and buy Kodak products or tell everyone what wondrous offerings the big K has to keep them afloat when they offer nothing I can see as better or even more affordable than others.
    A major reason a product is affordable is competition from other, similar, products. It's in all of our best interests for Kodak to survive. For that to happen, they need to shore up the film lines they presently carry, not reintroduce long lamented money losers, as much as many of us would like to see old favorites.

    I'm not exactly sure of the parallels but, it seems to me, this situation is similar to Ilford's of a few years ago. The company was split, with the silver film/paper division going solo. It seems to have worked for Ilford. I hope it works for Kodak, too.

  8. #58
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkee View Post
    I do promote Ilford and Fuji. They are the only ones left offering what a lot of us are asking for. I won't recommend Kodak to anyone for one reason only, they keep dropping product right after they say they won't. Why beat the dead Kodak horse.

    Support those who are supporting us, or I should say, most of us. I personally don't ask for anything from Kodak. They could bring back everything I loved and used, and would I go back to Kodak, nope. No use in me asking them for squat and I don't/won't. Since I can't get my favorites any longer, I have found new favorites from Fuji and Ilford. They get my business cause they offer me product that fits my needs.

    So should I run out and buy Kodak products or tell everyone what wondrous offerings the big K has to keep them afloat when they offer nothing I can see as better or even more affordable than others.

    Years ago I only used Kodak, and a lot of it. Just so you know.
    FYI to those interested...

    This level of brutally-honest, in-depth, customer-originated product intelligence, regardless of its conclusions, is freaking priceless.

    It doesn't matter which film company you may represent or be rooting for, this and all similar free customer feedback from anywhere else online should be required reading for all of those company's marketing departments. But in order to extract meaningful value from this, you have to be able to compartmentalize and set aside your initial knee-jerk reactions.

    React emotionally, and crucial insights will sail over your heads. React analytically, and this is information that you can really do something with. It's industry-related actionable intelligence in the most classic sense of the term.

    How so?

    If you are Kodak Alaris and are looking to expand your current customer base, take a hard analytical second look at those final two sentences...

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 11-08-2013 at 10:23 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added final observation...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by donkee View Post
    I do promote Ilford and Fuji. They are the only ones left offering what a lot of us are asking for. I won't recommend Kodak to anyone for one reason only, they keep dropping product right after they say they won't. Why beat the dead Kodak horse.

    Support those who are supporting us, or I should say, most of us. I personally don't ask for anything from Kodak. They could bring back everything I loved and used, and would I go back to Kodak, nope. No use in me asking them for squat and I don't/won't. Since I can't get my favorites any longer, I have found new favorites from Fuji and Ilford. They get my business cause they offer me product that fits my needs.

    So should I run out and buy Kodak products or tell everyone what wondrous offerings the big K has to keep them afloat when they offer nothing I can see as better or even more affordable than others.

    Years ago I only used Kodak, and a lot of it. Just so you know.
    No....

    Ok, look….you have every right to speak for your self, but you have no place, no right and simply no basis for speaking for anyone else, right? I can give you a list of at least two dozen professional photographers who depend on quality Kodak films like Tmax, Tri-X and Portra. I have no way of listing how many enthusiasts use it but it is a quite a bit. There are countless people on here, Photo.net, LFF and RFF who swear by Kodak Tri-X, Tmax and Portra, tons in fact, and they often use Ilford and Fuji as well.

    You don’t think Kodak has supported you but they have, just like Ilford and Fuji has. But this is *business* and in business when a product is steadily underperforming, it stands to get axed. Fuji has done this, Ilford had in the past and will again if something becomes a fiscal paperweight, anyone would be a fool to think different. You have people asking Ilford for a true IR film to replace Efke IR820, 220 films like HP5, Pan-F in 4x5. You have people lamenting the loss of RVP in 4x5, the price rise of Acros in 4x5 and how it is oddly different that of 120. But it is OK for these other companies to make wise business decisions because they are not Kodak past…..read that again sir…past. As in Kodak-alaris is NOT Kodak-perez. And that means for all of us who do count on Kodak products…and there are a LOT, we are relieved that there is at least a chance that the current line up will stand a chance of sticking around.

    I can almost assure you that at some point in the future, every single film maker will discontinue another film, possibly even Ilford. They are not taking it away from you personally, they are trimming off a product that puts ALL their film line at risk, get it????

    I know a lot of people get emotional about this and what they choose to use, that is a good thing man. really. But if you are done with Kodak, pissed off at the photo world because the grand heyday of film from the early 90’s is over and want to take it out on someone, please…out of respect for the new people at the helm of Kodak film who love the product as much as others do, let it alone man, move on…

    All you are doing by parroting your personal issues with Kodak is distracting people from the mission at hand for all of us, to put ALL films in a better light.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    If you are Kodak Alaris and are looking to expand your current customer base, take a hard analytical second look at those final two sentences...
    WHAT? They ARE!!!!

    And his last line about better products and cheaper than the competition...?...are you kidding me? Have you compared the price of any Kodak 120 film to any Fuji or Ilford? They are super close if not Kodak coming out cheaper. The new line of Ektar and Portra films are lauded by pros as the best they have ever used! Tmax 100 in 4x5 is over $1.00 a sheet cheaper than Acros!

    Not even Ilford comes on here and sits and has a coffee based chat about how the product line is doing, what is close to break even, etc. Somehow the damned internet has people convinced that they have a right to sit in on every board meeting, every marketing strategy think thank, BS!!! That is not how business connect with their customers, it is proprietary information that none of us have any business knowing.

    Bottom line, use the damned film, promote the film by word of mouth just like other business count on people doing. Once the financials of Kodak-alairs are in more steady footing, they will know where to flex marketing muscle. Don't expect big glossy print ads in PDN or NG magazine, 1-2 minute prime time Superbowl adverts either, those days are gone. Even Nikon is taking it in the shorts because of what the information revolution has done to devalue the artistic pursuit of photography, expect more carnage, more films to get axed and less expensive marketing fanfare for what you thought was the world of photography.

    And be really grateful we have *any* film at all in 2014....
    Last edited by PKM-25; 11-08-2013 at 11:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~



 

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