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  1. #71
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Apparently Dan feels he's picked up enough new flat spots on his head for now and has stopped banging it against a wall. For his sake, I applaud that decision.

    My positive contribution is to strongly admonish you against ever "being on here" or in any other way interacting with your phone / electronic device while driving. The potential for death and destruction (yours and others') from distraction is unbelievably high. It's just not worth the risk.
    Dan's bought enough kodak film to support the company I'm sure haha.

    Thanks, I've mentioned this a few times, 1 I only do it when I deem it safe (like driving 5mph or at full stop for example) and I have the expertise to know when it's safe, I'm a trained and certified precision driver, I drive with stunt guys in movies as my job, so I'm much more spatially aware and observant than other drivers, in fact I once had to text while driving backward as part of a scene that was of course making fun of texting and driving.

    So I'm not doing it foolishly, and I know my limits and when it's safe for me.

    I know this sounds arrogant but I've earned it and I will always put the phone down if ever I'm not capable of doing it safely.

    Thanks for the concern of course.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #72
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Skimmed a lot of the last couple pages of bickering.

    Realistically there's probably more chance of Fuji bringing back Astia and Provia 400X than of Kodak reviving E6. That chance is low but probably not zero since Fuji has brought back films before and are still making a limited range of E6 films.

    Has Kodak EVER brought back a once discontinued film? What they have now is excellent. They own color neg as Fuji has nothing to compare to Ektar and doesn't compare that well to Portra either really. T-Max and Tri-X are excellent films, though in those categories there is competition.

  3. #73
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Skimmed a lot of the last couple pages of bickering.

    Realistically there's probably more chance of Fuji bringing back Astia and Provia 400X than of Kodak reviving E6. That chance is low but probably not zero since Fuji has brought back films before and are still making a limited range of E6 films.

    Has Kodak EVER brought back a once discontinued film? What they have now is excellent. They own color neg as Fuji has nothing to compare to Ektar and doesn't compare that well to Portra either really. T-Max and Tri-X are excellent films, though in those categories there is competition.
    I agree, Fuji has some excellent long-term users of their color negative film, however I'm surprised by now that they haven't dropped that line entirely and just kept the E6 land B&W lines, perhaps they are holding out thinking that maybe Kodak wouldn't be around much longer, and therefore would only market, but as we can see with this new company, I think Kodak will be around for a long time and Fuji should focus on their last color film that sells well in a market that they own completely, and friggin get us some home processing 6 bath kits to the USA already! Haha

    Does anyone know because I don't really know, I had trouble following loans what division of what company etc., but does this new company actually own the chemical making parts of Kodak? Perhaps Kodak could start making home E6 kits again for the USA. I know that's highly dependent on what Fuji does, however they would be the only one selling in the USA which I thought was a decent market in the E6 field? Maybe not?
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    ...does this new company actually own the chemical making parts of Kodak?...
    Kodak Alaris owns neither the film making operation (that's Eastman Kodak) nor photo chemical manufacturing, which was previously outsourced to Champion and now reportedly to Tetenal.

  5. #75
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    Kodak Alaris has a lot of work to do to build back a positive image. So much ill will. I wonder how fair it really is. Maintaining the current product portfolio is also Ilford/Harman's position and as has been noted Fuji has been trimming many favorite products. Fuji has been positively sphinx like in offering information about discontinuances. KA is a new company, they deserve a chance to get their feet under them and try their best to succeed. I hope they do.

  6. #76
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Kodak Alaris owns neither the film making operation (that's Eastman Kodak) nor photo chemical manufacturing, which was previously outsourced to Champion and now reportedly to Tetenal.
    Wait, so if they don't make the film or the chemistry, what does that have to do with us? I'm a bit confused, it's probably complicated business stuff? But don't we want Eastman Kodak to be the one to survive? What DOES the new KA make?
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #77
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Wait, so if they don't make the film or the chemistry, what does that have to do with us? I'm a bit confused, it's probably complicated business stuff? But don't we want Eastman Kodak to be the one to survive? What DOES the new KA make?
    Kodak Alaris makes the colour photographic paper at the plant they acquired at Harrow in the UK, plus they have the rights to the production contracts (for colour paper) at a number of other sites around the world.

    They also acquired the commercial document imaging business from Kodak. I'm not sure if any manufacturing facilities were included with that.

    Eastman Kodak sold the chemistry manufacturing business a long time ago, but the sale and distribution of Kodak photographic chemistry remained with Eastman Kodak. I expect that R & D around chemistry was shared between the manufacturers and EK. That sale and distribution business went to Kodak Alaris.

    Kodak Alaris has the right to sell and distribute all Kodak film, except for the motion picture film. That film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak, on the same machine that makes the motion picture film.

    Most likely, Kodak Alaris will need to develop a long term plan for the replacement of its manufacturing source for film. It may very well be that they are working with Eastman Kodak on those plans - or maybe with others.

    In the short term, Kodak Alaris has an absolutely dysfunctional worldwide distribution system they need to deal with. I expect that this is what they are concentrating on now, because until that is improved, they will do more harm then good if they promote film to people who won't be able to find it anywhere.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #78
    erikg's Avatar
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    EK is now making film for KA to market and sell. It's interesting to wonder if the arraignment is mutually exclusive or can EK make film for someone else or can KA sell film made elsewhere?

  9. #79
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    In the short term, Kodak Alaris has an absolutely dysfunctional worldwide distribution system they need to deal with. I expect that this is what they are concentrating on now, because until that is improved, they will do more harm then good if they promote film to people who won't be able to find it anywhere.
    If you sell a business all ongoing contracts will go over on the new owner including such with wholesalers.
    If Kodak Alaris would be dependant on Kodak distribution facilities, they either would have taken that over, or where it it makes sense to share facilities to hire service from Kodak. So I do not see a problem in that.
    Is the distribution really dysfunctional?

    Maybe though you refer to the market share at photo-shops where at least over here Fuji seems dominant.

  10. #80
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    If you sell a business all ongoing contracts will go over on the new owner including such with wholesalers.
    If Kodak Alaris would be dependant on Kodak distribution facilities, they either would have taken that over, or where it it makes sense to share facilities to hire service from Kodak. So I do not see a problem in that.
    Is the distribution really dysfunctional?

    Maybe though you refer to the market share at photo-shops where at least over here Fuji seems dominant.
    The retailers around here have great difficulty getting stock of Kodak film.

    And the bankruptcy made all distribution contracts with Eastman Kodak at least voidable, if not void.

    It is, of course, made infinitely more complex by the fact that no Canadian retailer had contracts with Eastman Kodak. They had contracts with distributor(s), who had contracts with Kodak Canada. Kodak Canada is a wholly owned subsidiary of Eastman Kodak.

    As I understand it, it is the same situation for all the other non-USA Kodaks.

    Kodak Canada was never in bankruptcy, but ever since all its manufacturing capabilities were shut down, Kodak Canada was dependent on Eastman Kodak for product. As I understand it, it is essentially the same situation with all the other non-USA Kodaks, although of course sites like the Harrow paper plant are an exception.

    In fact, Kodak Canada guaranteed the financing that helped Eastman Kodak get out of bankruptcy.

    As far as I know Kodak Canada is still doing business, but rumours abound about its continuing existence. If Kodak Canada is going to continue in existence, it may have nothing to do with film in the future, or maybe it will serve as the Canadian arm of Alaris - who knows????

    I doubt the retailers and distributors in Germany had any direct contracts with Eastman Kodak.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2



 

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