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  1. #101
    analoguey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/thestree...in-pc-decline/

    Not that small, and it looks like they have a plan.
    They are, in commercial. Maybe not that small in personal.
    As the Forbes article says, MS still makes enough money from Enterprise sales - and not just from Windows, but from the its many flavoured (and very very well integrated and executed) enterprise suite of software.
    Win 8 has taken a hit, but its mainly because of people griping about it. Funny part being everyone welcomed apple removing all buttons but one on its phones but went the other way on Windows - if that isnt the result of smart marketing, tell me what is?
    The large user base of Windows is just crying to be made use of and integrated really seamlessly for enterprise - and neither Apple nor Google can make a dent there.

    The first apple phones were different but not mature at all(ditto ipad - no USB/BT). And I doubt apple's Maps would have had the same flak with Jobs around - even with the same performance. As a customer Apple keeps turning me away by forcing me to stick to their road or the high road - that recent bluetooth experience was from an Imagine store just two days ago - I want to test the screen capability with images (film ones) that I have on phone, but hey - there's no bluetooth to transfer files, only for music! I have to use a cable(!!) or connect to the internet and then login on that apple ipad to see the image. Ludicrous! Bluetooth existed in 100$ phones as early as 2003!

    And dont even get me started on their insistence on everything having to be via itunes, heck they even came up with a new way to brick an iphone with their new activation system.

  2. #102
    JohnRichard's Avatar
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    I have used Appl products before. I don't now, and I'll save my ranting about their business practices for another day.

    I have never liked all in one devices. I prefer to pay up front for the correct tool to do the job.

    My phone does take pictures but I don't ever use it for serious photography because I can't control it.

    And just like everything else, art forms and knowledge are being lost today never to return. Students learn photography in highschool on film, but at university theyblearn filmmaking digitally...

    The old addage of the tractor replacing the horse doesn't apply anymore. Cellphones have not replaced cameras, only the knowledge that such things exist. If we don't teach our children that there are better things then how are they to know.

    After encouragement, one of my students discovered his father's vinal collection and instead of lissening to modern pop, he is now exploring music written 50 years ago (velvet underground, floyd, zepplin, and the like).

    I'm not sure what my point is, but this technology replacement thing isn't new. Of course, capitalalism is unsustainable ( to use a buzz word) and that's something at which we should all be outraged.

    How about yelling at the cell hardware makers for using the plastic we need for film?! Or yelling at everyone for using the corn in plastic instead of food...

    I can only control my little universe, in which some technology is allowed, and others shunned. Choose wisely.

    Sent from my LT30at using Tapatalk 2
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    4x5 Speed Graphic, Looking for another 8x10.

  3. #103
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRichard View Post
    I have used Appl products before. I don't now, and I'll save my ranting about their business practices for another day.

    I have never liked all in one devices. I prefer to pay up front for the correct tool to do the job.

    My phone does take pictures but I don't ever use it for serious photography because I can't control it.

    And just like everything else, art forms and knowledge are being lost today never to return. Students learn photography in highschool on film, but at university theyblearn filmmaking digitally...

    The old addage of the tractor replacing the horse doesn't apply anymore. Cellphones have not replaced cameras, only the knowledge that such things exist. If we don't teach our children that there are better things then how are they to know.

    After encouragement, one of my students discovered his father's vinal collection and instead of lissening to modern pop, he is now exploring music written 50 years ago (velvet underground, floyd, zepplin, and the like).

    I'm not sure what my point is, but this technology replacement thing isn't new. Of course, capitalalism is unsustainable ( to use a buzz word) and that's something at which we should all be outraged.

    How about yelling at the cell hardware makers for using the plastic we need for film?! Or yelling at everyone for using the corn in plastic instead of food...

    I can only control my little universe, in which some technology is allowed, and others shunned. Choose wisely.
    Nice mini-rant...



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
    It's often suggested that Apple computers are some how not as vulnerable to virus attacks, etc. I question that. They are such a small percentage of the commercial computing environment (think money or access to info that will lead to money) there just is no incentive to focus on them.
    There was a similar suggestion years ago about windows versus Linux. However, a study examining the Server market found, while windows servers were far fewer at the time of the study, they were infected/compromised far more often than non-windows servers. I cannot find a link to it at the moment.
    Truzi

  5. #105
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I don't fully comprehend what you're saying.

    You can use air drop to transfer any file you want via bluetooth. Photos too.

    Of course business applications hoover around PC solutions, because of the prominent market share of those platforms.
    Plus, what entrepreneur in their right mind will pay twice as much for Apple hardware?

    I think people get hooked on Apple products because they are beautiful, and they feel luxurious. It's not a rational decision. If all decisions were made by cost/benefit analysis, Apple's market share would be a lot less.


    Quote Originally Posted by analoguey View Post
    They are, in commercial. Maybe not that small in personal.
    As the Forbes article says, MS still makes enough money from Enterprise sales - and not just from Windows, but from the its many flavoured (and very very well integrated and executed) enterprise suite of software.
    Win 8 has taken a hit, but its mainly because of people griping about it. Funny part being everyone welcomed apple removing all buttons but one on its phones but went the other way on Windows - if that isnt the result of smart marketing, tell me what is?
    The large user base of Windows is just crying to be made use of and integrated really seamlessly for enterprise - and neither Apple nor Google can make a dent there.

    The first apple phones were different but not mature at all(ditto ipad - no USB/BT). And I doubt apple's Maps would have had the same flak with Jobs around - even with the same performance. As a customer Apple keeps turning me away by forcing me to stick to their road or the high road - that recent bluetooth experience was from an Imagine store just two days ago - I want to test the screen capability with images (film ones) that I have on phone, but hey - there's no bluetooth to transfer files, only for music! I have to use a cable(!!) or connect to the internet and then login on that apple ipad to see the image. Ludicrous! Bluetooth existed in 100$ phones as early as 2003!

    And dont even get me started on their insistence on everything having to be via itunes, heck they even came up with a new way to brick an iphone with their new activation system.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    There was a similar suggestion years ago about windows versus Linux. However, a study examining the Server market found, while windows servers were far fewer at the time of the study, they were infected/compromised far more often than non-windows servers. I cannot find a link to it at the moment.
    OS X is POSIX under the hood now, so that analogy should apply pretty strongly.

    It's not really that Macs are so virus-resistant, it's that Windows has always been *incredibly* insecure, and M$ has consistently been willing to deliver features that were flashy but vulnerable. There are technical reasons why the underpinnings of Windows were originally flaky about security; Macs used to be just as insecure as anything else back in the 80s (when security was for mainframes), but Apple got out from under those legacy issues when they introduced OS X.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    It's not a rational decision. If all decisions were made by cost/benefit analysis, Apple's market share would be a lot less.
    Come on, I don't think shooting film is a rational decision, based on sound financial sense either. It's frequently talked about in terms of the senses and at times, people even use mystical reasoning for, that's right, consuming film. If we only ever made rational decisions, we probably wouldn't be human. I don't think that 'it's not rational' is a fair criticism of Apple consumers because I've found that many exceptionally creative and intelligent people use iPhones. They also maintain healthy relationships and manage to pay their bills.

    I moved to a HTC One recently - so I'm not biased... anymore.

    And I didn't change devices for smug 'logical' reasons (a word that's thrown around a little too much of late, along with "I can't process what you're/they're/he's saying"), but simply because I was bored.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  8. #108
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    You're quite good at reading things literally.

    Just because a decision isn't rational, or logical, or whatever, it doesn't imply that it's stupid either. What I am saying is that Apple manages to get BEYOND the rational decision and appeal (very successfully too) to our senses, like no other manufacturer can.

    Apple products are very good devices, so naturally people can choose them on basis of that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    Come on, I don't think shooting film is a rational decision, based on sound financial sense either. It's frequently talked about in terms of the senses and at times, people even use mystical reasoning for, that's right, consuming film. If we only ever made rational decisions, we probably wouldn't be human. I don't think that 'it's not rational' is a fair criticism of Apple consumers because I've found that many exceptionally creative and intelligent people use iPhones. They also maintain healthy relationships and manage to pay their bills.

    I moved to a HTC One recently - so I'm not biased... anymore.

    And I didn't change devices for smug 'logical' reasons (a word that's thrown around a little too much of late, along with "I can't process what you're/they're/he's saying"), but simply because I was bored.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    Come on, I don't think shooting film is a rational decision, based on sound financial sense either.
    I know this isn't the right place, and I hate to threadjack, but that isn't always true. A few years ago I wanted to pursue photography as a serious hobby and had to choose between film and digital. I did the calculations based on equipment costs and my projected volume (purely as a hobbyist, with no pro pretensions) and made the decision to go into film. The only thing I didn't account for was format-size creep. But even that would not seriously change the outcome.

  10. #110

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    Let's see ... I shoot 8x10 film. My favorite camera has realistically appreciated in value 600% since I bought it. All the lenses have appreciated. All gear still highly in demand. I average one shot a week. ... There is nothing capable of providing equivalent quality in portable digital options. But if there was, it would probably cost $200,000 and then lose 90% of its resale value within five years. Then there's my lab, which would have to be wholly redone for the sake of significantly diminished print quality. But at least I would have bragging rights for a month or two, if I could ever learn Geek-speak. ... So which is cheaper? For the same amount of money required for even a remotely comparable level of quality - I could shoot even color 8x10 film for about a thousand years using my present equipment. And then I'd still
    have a hundred times more shots on hand than I could ever possibly print. Now maybe you machine-gunners look at all this differently...



 

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