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  1. #121
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    OK, there are a couple of misunderstandings here I think.

    In today's market, it is the move that hurts and it hurts in 2 ways. First is the move itself into a new facility. But second is the down time that takes place during the move. If Ilford (as an example) were to move, they would have to have a rather big backlog of precoated material to tide them over, or we would see products vanish during the move. But, these products have expiration dates. So there is the dilemma.

    The second problem is that paper and film can be coated on the same machine, but there is cleanup time after every paper run due to dust. And so you cannot just coat paper and then film. You have to have a costly down time and cleanup party before film coating starts up again. Thus you have a complex schedule that allows for one or the other with cleanup in-between.

    Add to that that tensioning must be adjusted for film types and paper. Estar, Acetate and RC each run at a different tension and pressure on the air bearings (at KP). IDK how they run at Ilford.

    Just some comments in reply to posts here.

    PE

  2. #122

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    Have Kodak Park categorized as a "historical district" so it can stay right where it is as a protected species.

  3. #123
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    Have Kodak Park categorized as a "historical district" so it can stay right where it is as a protected species.
    This might prevent future improvements to film production, as the old ways of doing it would mean not being able to add newer technological machinery to the building, not such a good idea in practice.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    OK, there are a couple of misunderstandings here I think.

    In today's market, it is the move that hurts and it hurts in 2 ways. First is the move itself into a new facility. But second is the down time that takes place during the move. If Ilford (as an example) were to move, they would have to have a rather big backlog of precoated material to tide them over, or we would see products vanish during the move. But, these products have expiration dates. So there is the dilemma.

    The second problem is that paper and film can be coated on the same machine, but there is cleanup time after every paper run due to dust. And so you cannot just coat paper and then film. You have to have a costly down time and cleanup party before film coating starts up again. Thus you have a complex schedule that allows for one or the other with cleanup in-between.

    Add to that that tensioning must be adjusted for film types and paper. Estar, Acetate and RC each run at a different tension and pressure on the air bearings (at KP). IDK how they run at Ilford.

    Just some comments in reply to posts here.

    PE
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    This might prevent future improvements to film production, as the old ways of doing it would mean not being able to add newer technological machinery to the building, not such a good idea in practice.
    What future developments? Kodak film can't be made any better. It's perfect. That's like talking about anvil technology on ways to make a higher quality anvil. It is what it is and doesn't get any better than that. They can make Kodak film just like they're doing till the rapture, or the cows come home, whichever is first.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I'm hungry too, but not using such emoticons to mock PE. He's absolutely correct that there is a probability (not saying whether that is high or low relative to film) that products will vanish in the midst of a factory move. That is one of the biggest unintended consequences and the probabliity is not small. Once lost, establishing alternate sources is generally impossible. There is a lot more involved in manufacturing than just possessing the machine.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    What future developments? Kodak film can't be made any better. It's perfect. That's like talking about anvil technology on ways to make a higher quality anvil. It is what it is and doesn't get any better than that. They can make Kodak film just like they're doing till the rapture, or the cows come home, whichever is first.
    Other things they might coat... flexible solar panels come to mind.

    Nano technologies that produce film that is better and or cheaper or both that could be implemented to help kodak save on costs and produce film for longer into the future... any number of reasons we can't think of or have the technological knowhow to understand YET.

    Historical societies are notorious for ruining the lives of those that "used" to own buildings before they step in and say "well you can't install a new better x-device because it didn't exist then, you'll have to just fix the broken one at 4 times the cost" this ranges from simple things like a new heating system, to things like a new roof, or the materials needed for a new roof that have to be sourced from more historical methods and places ... it's laborious, costly, and inconsiderate of the people who actually built the structures.

    A friend of mine grew up in a home that George Washington stayed at on his campaign... it's OLD, the house had been built by the owners great great great grandparents and the family had lived on the property the entire time, but the historical society got wind that they were going to renovate the house because it needed new internal ceilings and all sorts of stuff to make it habitable, and said "no you can't do that, it will ruin it's historical-ness" and they actually spent the entire family fortune to defend this house that THEY OWNED AND HAD BUILT THEMSELVES.... and some idiot thought they had the right to have a say in what happened to their own damn property.

    Well they are now broke, but they won, except now the house can't be worked on because there is no money, and it's falling apart...

    Historical societies pretend they are doing good and preserving history, but all they really often do is ruin peoples lives... and cause trouble.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    I'm hungry too, but not using such emoticons to mock PE. He's absolutely correct that there is a probaility (not saying whether that is high or low relative to film) that products will vanish in the midst of a factory move. That is one of the biggest unintended consequences and the probabliity is not small. Once lost, establishing alternate sources is generally impossible. There is a lot more involved in manufacturing than just possessing the machine.
    umm I was whistling because he was saying what I already said and backing up my comment...

    I was mocking the others that doubted my statements...

    IE "see even PE agrees with me"
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #129

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    Oh... sorry. Looks can be deceiving somethimes. I just considered that it was his post that had the whistling and muching attached. I read that wrong. Sorry.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Oh... sorry. Looks can be deceiving somethimes. I just considered that it was his post that had the whistling and muching attached. I read that wrong. Sorry.
    It's cool, but one person I wouldn't ever dare mock or disagree with is PE, I might question a comment he makes to understand more clearly, but I pretty much take his word as gold... yellow gold...
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller



 

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