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  1. #71
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Here are some missed points.

    1. KA at Harrow does not coat film. Film and paper are not normally coated on the same machines due to the dust from the paper support. I doubt that KA will make film. It will come from Rochester.

    2. Kodak in Rochester has cancelled all responsibility to existing pensioners and has no obligations to them.

    3. Kodak can make film at any speed that they desire. There has to be a reformulation to do this, I am sure, but they can slow the machines down if they wish.

    PE

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    All I can say about ilford is they are foolish to not own the properly, too costly to move all that equipment.
    Perhaps they think it is better business sense to focus their resources on photography, and pay another company to be better at managing the grounds and buildings economically than Harman would be themselves.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    In the US a company can write off lease payments at 100% on the taxes. Therefore it is often a wise business decision to lease rather than buy. I do not know the tax laws in England, but I would think that they would be the same in this respect.

    Instead of firing off a posting criticizing a company, that you do some due diligence for a change. A little research you do you a great deal of good.
    Well you don't actually buy it with company money you create a shell that manages the property that is a subsidiary or something of the main company and then can still deduct. It's all about loop holes... Anyway I'm not exactly unfamiliar with this stuff, I bought my first rental property at 23....

    I didn't say I was good at, as I now have NO properties... But I know stuff ... I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol
    I think Harmon, like a lot of businesses, have no desire to learn in this way.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I didn't say I was good at, as I now have NO properties... But I know stuff ... I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol
    I'd advise them not to take your advice...

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    All I can say about ilford is they are foolish to not own the properly, too costly to move all that equipment.

    As far as cleanup, my grandfathers estate was 2 hour see and a dry cleaners building, he's been gone for almost 20 years and we are STILL cleaning up the perk (Perchlorethylene) ....

    The property lot is only about 1600 square feet...

    We've spent well over 1,000,000 to clean it up (we being the estate money).

    Good luck to them...
    A few minutes on Google will show that there is a viable plan in progress at the present time by the owners of the property at Mobberley to redevelop the site where Harman Technology is presently situated ; this is intended to put residential development on the presently unused parts, with Harman production moving into a smaller purpose-built unit. All there on public websites. Don't underestimate UK companies and business people.

  7. #77

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    Stone, selling off to some sucker, creating a shell, loop holes etc This really is getting close to Gordon. Was he the one responsible for gas being more expensive in NY and creaming the extra profits by ensuring that no petrol/gas tankers are allowed? I recall someone saying that petrol/gas tankers aren't allowed in NY so petrol is more expensive. Sounds like a Gordon trick Never give the suckers an even break

    In the words of the famous U.K. group "10cc"'s song about Wall Street" You've got to stay cool on Wall Street when your index is low, Dow-Jones ain't got time for the bums"

    Actually this was many years before Gordon emerged so it would appear that we are the villains and Hollywood's sentiments are fully justified.

    We are not as pleasant as I thought. I live in a small, sleepy rural market town in deepest Northamptonshire but even here there are no longer any signs of the "Five families" that once ran the place

    pentaxuser

  8. #78
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    This is a little off topic, but this thread seems as good a place as any to ask. I hope PhotoEngineer or others with deep industry insight can offer a comment.

    It seems that the world of B&W has stabilized. From what I've read here and there, Ilford is making money, selling into a market that is a tiny fraction of its former self. They've managed, it would seem, to properly size their operation for the reality of what sales can be expected, and its working. Good for them.

    My question is whether such a thing is even theoretically possible with color film. What I mean is that, suppose worldwide demand for (to pick an example) Ektar 100 is "X" units per year going forward. And lets even suppose that that demand level is stable or maybe even growing a bit (but still a shadow of what it was 15 years ago). Is it possible, in theory, to make Ektar at the volume levels indicated by current demand and make money doing it? Today, the market price for 120 is right at $5 per roll. So, what's the plant getting out of that? $2 or so? Can you make Ektar profitably at those prices and today's volumes, or are there certain minimum volume requirements necessary to get the economies of scale in place, and without them the pricing would have to be dramatically higher?

    As an aside, I could see paying maybe up to $10 per roll, but above that, I'd really have to think about it.

    What about quality? Are there similar considerations of minimum required volumes in order to achieve the quality and consistency standards we've come to enjoy?

    I wish I knew what these numbers look like. How many rolls of Ektar 120 will be sold in 2014? I think about that, and then think that if the number is less than, say, 10 million, that makes film production a really, really tiny business. I mean, 10 million units at a loading dock price of $2 ea is only $20 million gross revenue per year to the plant. So I wonder if my 10 million estimate is wrong, but intuitively, I can't imagine sales being that high. Maybe I underestimate the market. Who knows.

    Anyway, if that is in the ballpark of the actual demand, then you could have a nice (little) business going if you sold $20 million per year against a materials and direct labor cost of $1 per roll, leaving you $10 million for administration and advertising and debt service and all the rest.

    But like I said, I have no idea if that guesstimate of the market is anywhere near reality, just as I have no idea if it would be even theoretically possible to produce a quality product at those volume levels.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

  9. #79
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    Here is a question for you gurus. What happens if film sales continue as-is or grow, but nevertheless the value of the property becomes greater than the value of the product being manufactured on the property? Now, with a long term lease you are safe, but eventually, things catch up with you.

    Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

    This, BTW, was a small but real factor in the demise of EFKE I have been told.

    PE

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

    Despite the name 'Park', I doubt anyone would want to build condos there.

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