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  1. #131
    erikg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaf-Photo View Post
    That's a bit harsh.

    I think most skeptics are judging Kodak on the facts, not by their logo.

    They represent one of the more epic corporate failures in recent times ( there are others too).

    Over the years, Kodak has received a lot of love from pro photographers and hobbyists alike.

    But that love is clearly unrequitted, or even spurned.

    Clearly that hurts
    Harsh? Maybe so. Maybe some overly harsh words for KA here too. There are few facts presented here, and without an inside view a complete picture is near impossible. I agree with you on the rest, although if you love a corporation getting burned or spurned or just let down is probably inevitable.

  2. #132
    Jaf-Photo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikg View Post
    Harsh? Maybe so. Maybe some overly harsh words for KA here too. There are few facts presented here, and without an inside view a complete picture is near impossible. I agree with you on the rest, although if you love a corporation getting burned or spurned or just let down is probably inevitable.
    Photographers love the Kodak films, not necessarily the corporate entity.

    I always listen to what prominent photographers have to say about their equipment.

    It is striking how strong a bond they have with their films, typically Tri-X or Portra. It's what enables them to make the pictures they want, and utimately to make a living.

    I really haven't come across much of the same type of spontaneous love for Fuji or Ilford products.

  3. #133
    erikg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaf-Photo View Post
    Photographers love the Kodak films, not necessarily the corporate entity.

    I always listen to what prominent photographers have to say about their equipment.

    It is striking how strong a bond they have with their films, typically Tri-X or Portra. It's what enables them to make the pictures they want, and utimately to make a living.

    I really haven't come across much of the same type of spontaneous love for Fuji or Ilford products.


    It exists. You'll find it here on apug if you look hard enough. You are proving my point though, you can love a product with all your heart but if fewer and fewer people are buying that product untimely your love won't count for very much. I love photography and I have been making a living with it for 30 years. Products come and go, it's sad when they go but I try not to get too attached. I'm still sad that I can't get raisin biscuits anymore!

  4. #134
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    I certainly think Ilford commands the same sort of affection that Kodak films have.

    I don't see this as Kodak "bashing". I see it as serious people with serious investments in time/skill/money/craft/art looking for some sense that a key part of their craft takes them seriously in return. That is all.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

  5. #135
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaf-Photo View Post
    I think most skeptics are judging Kodak on the facts, not by their logo.
    This is the crucial observation. The tipping point fulcrum that so much depends on, and so many here choose to avert their eyes from...

    People are judging EK/KA by their observable behavior. There is no better indicator. For years now I've listened closely to what Kodak's management team has told us publicly. And I've watched carefully what Kodak's management team has done with it's film product lines. Both good and bad. And I've formed my conclusions accordingly.

    I don't need to have privileged access to the EK/KA private management suites and boardrooms to use my eyes and ears.

    When top management at EK, the individuals whose opinions guide the company, tells Wall Street that they don't care about film any longer, that it could vanish tomorrow and they wouldn't be in the least concerned, I take that viewpoint seriously. And I adjust my own opinion of them, and my film purchasing habits, accordingly.

    Similarly, when KA hires a self-acknowledged mobile high-tech executive to set the direction of their new company, the one that still markets the vestigial remnants of EK's once magnificent portfolio of film products, I pay very close attention. Both to the hiring, and to his statements. Or non-statements.

    Remember the three little monkeys? The first covers his eyes. The second covers his ears? And the third covers his mouth?

    Well, that's not me...

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  6. #136

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    I do see this as "bashing". Kodak Aleris is offering an amazing line of products, so does Ilford. Who can complain about Ektar, Portra, Tri-X, TMax, HP5+, FP4+, Delta, Pan-F etc? Who cares about their marketing strategy?

    Skickat från min GT-P5210 via Tapatalk

  7. #137
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    This thread seems to have run its course.

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