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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Tell me there are more labs today in your market than 5-8 years ago.
    Please read my post. I have not said that. I have said we see a stabilisation here during the last two years. No further closings, some new services.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    N. American labs have been in steady decline for a decade. Just ask around.
    I know that. We had the peak in film sales in 2001 with more than 3 billion films sold worldwide.
    Now we have about 10% of that.
    Of course that development caused closings of labs during the last decade. No need to argue.

    But that is not the question. The question is wether we now see the beginning of the end of this trend. Wether we will see in the next two or three years or can already see in some areas a stabilisation or a little increase.
    That is the subject of the Telegraph article.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    The number of Lomography jobs is insignificant.
    So, you doubt that overall growth rates of 50% p.a. for a company are not an indicator for economic success.
    You doubt that an rapidly growing online community is not an indicator for success.
    That doubling film sales in one year is not an indicator for success.
    That when a company with almost 300 employees is offering 79 new jobs, that that is insignificant and not an indicator fur success.

    I think most business people are probably very satisfied if they would have 10% of that

    Best regards,
    Henning

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Since I know nothing, which sells better: smart phones/camera-equipped phones or p&s digicams?
    Of course the mobil phones are sold in higher numbers. Because their main use is telephone calls and SMS.

    You said that digital p&s were killed by mobil phones. But fact is p&s still have increasing sales numbers on a world wide basis (in some markets the sales numbers are decreasing, but mainly because of market saturation; everyone who wants such a p&s now has one).
    And with more than 100 million units sold saying they are killed is a bit exaggerated, don't you think?

    Best regards,
    Henning

  3. #33
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henning Serger View Post
    Please read my post. I have not said that. I have said we see a stabilisation here during the last two years. No further closings, some new services.



    I know that. We had the peak in film sales in 2001 with more than 3 billion films sold worldwide.
    Now we have about 10% of that.
    Of course that development caused closings of labs during the last decade. No need to argue.

    But that is not the question. The question is wether we now see the beginning of the end of this trend. Wether we will see in the next two or three years or can already see in some areas a stabilisation or a little increase.
    That is the subject of the Telegraph article.



    So, you doubt that overall growth rates of 50% p.a. for a company are not an indicator for economic success.
    You doubt that an rapidly growing online community is not an indicator for success.
    That doubling film sales in one year is not an indicator for success.
    That when a company with almost 300 employees is offering 79 new jobs, that that is insignificant and not an indicator fur success.

    I think most business people are probably very satisfied if they would have 10% of that

    Best regards,
    Henning
    It's nice you're enthusiastic about Lomography Inc but it's hardly an engine of growth for the world's economy. It's macro-economically insignificant, sorry.

    Stability--and especially some faint stirring--after a decade of calamitous decline in film sales is rather cold comfort. Harman's stock isn't doing badly--there was even a small dividend--but I haven't seen their balance sheet. They're in a bit of a "last man standing" position.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    It's nice you're enthusiastic about Lomography Inc .....
    Again, please read my posts. Look at post no. 5 on page 1.
    I am not "enthusiastic" about lomography. I am analysing it on a neutral basis.
    I have clearly written that in post no 5, that the toy camera movement has both positive and negative effects on analogue photography.

    It is an interesting question why LSI has this success. To analyse the reasons makes sense.That's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    but it's hardly an engine of growth for the world's economy. It's macro-economically insignificant, sorry.
    ??? Of course it is not an engine for the world's economy. No one has said that!
    But meanwhile they are so big that they have a relevance for the photo film market. With 500,000 cameras and several million films sold every year.
    That is the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Stability--and especially some faint stirring--after a decade of calamitous decline in film sales is rather cold comfort.
    Maybe that's your feeling. But for film manufacturers stability is "heaven on earth"
    after these hard last years.
    And for us photographers as well.
    Stability is the most important thing. With stability in film sales the future of photo film is secured and we can continue to use our medium.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Harman's stock isn't doing badly--there was even a small dividend--but I haven't seen their balance sheet. They're in a bit of a "last man standing" position.
    Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Adox, Foma, Fotokemika......they have all declared in the past they will be the last man standing....... I don't care much for this talk.
    I think all of them work hard to keep their lines running. And I wish them all success. And if we really see a stabilisation in the next years, first signs are there, then indeed all of them can stay in business.

    I remenber well Photokina fair in 2002: Lots of "experts" said that in 2010 film will be dead and all production will be stopped. And now we even see new emulsions on the market (and new cameras for film).

    Best regards,
    Henning

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Harman's stock isn't doing badly--there was even a small dividend--but I haven't seen their balance sheet.
    What stock are you referring to? Harman is a privately held company.

  6. #36

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    I actually thought this was a good news thread: a high profile news site gives film photography some airing and Lomography shifted 4 million rolls of film in one year during the worst recession since 1932.

    Anyway, whenever the doom & gloom predictions materialise, I think to a comment made on photo.net back in 2003 and I keep in mind what predictions are: predictions:

    I firmly believe that film will indeed disappear for all intents and purposes within this decade [...] Whether there will be any film available by 2010 or not isn't worth debating, the cost will be extraordinarily high. Contrary to the ludicrous contention of some that 3rd-world consumption will be the savior of film, it will in fact be only the affluent collector who will find film affordable.
    Steve.

  7. #37

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    The end of any world is usually postponed

    Anyway, whenever the doom & gloom predictions materialise, I think to a comment made on photo.net back in 2003 and I keep in mind what predictions are: predictions:
    "Making predictions is always difficult, especially about the future."

    - Somebody smarter than I

    sa

  8. #38
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    Decline

    Henning -

    CGW is mostly correct in this debate. While there has been great sales in 'toy' cameras, it is really just a fad, maybe a good fad for film.

    And while you seem to be stuck in some sort of time-warp there in Germany, World-wide labs are still closing left and right. I don't believe you quite understand what is happening outside of your little world.

    It is true that film sale have gone up in the past 12 months, per my connections with some camera shops in the US. This is likely because all the other stores are closed, but in the likelihood there has been a semi-substantial increase in film sales - the manufactures have not let on and we as a lab have not seen more film to process this year.

    The problem arises for ALL labs - "CONSISTENT VOLUME". Without it a lab can not maintain quality or keep rates down. The result - they close.

    While the rate of lab closure has slowed in the past few years, still over 300 closed in N.America last year.

  9. #39
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    Docterfivechrome, I believe that Harmon (Ilford) have reported an 8% increase in film moved by them in the last year.

    Mick.

  10. #40
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Fagan View Post
    Docterfivechrome, I believe that Harmon (Ilford) have reported an 8% increase in film moved by them in the last year.

    Mick.
    8% above what? What's the $ value of that 8% against total film sales last year? That's the big picture background that's necessary to grasp what's going on. Viewed in isolation of that, the chirping about Harmon/Ilford's 8% increase doesn't necessarily mean much.



 

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