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  1. #21
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcan1 View Post
    My bet is that Kodak's film making business will continue to exist, under Chinese ownership.
    The factory in Rochester worth anything cannot move, and Kodak folded most of its Chinese operations years ago due to quality control and training issues.

    Demand for film is falling faster overseas than in Japan, North America, and Europe because the emerging middle classes in developing nations have bypassed film and went straight to digital. If one looks at Sony sensor sales many emergent middle class have even gone right past dedicated cameras and only purchase and use their cameraphone. The Chinese won't even sell to themselves as their fi, deans market is dwindling fast as well.

  2. #22

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    You missed the point ... he was surmising a Chinese buyout, not Chinese mfg. Big difference. They're
    buying up all kinds of US and Canadian operations at the moment to invest cash surpluses. No way at the moment to really predict the possibility of this, but it does remind me of how Oji of Japan
    bought the color division of Ilford and kept Cibachrome alive another decade; and a decade is a long
    time for any photographic product in these rapidly changing times. As someone who makes part of
    my living using a "crystal ball" to predict the stability or otherwise of mfg corporations, this is one
    case where I think everyone's crystal ball will have to be glued back together piece by piece in
    hindsight. There are all kinds of hypothetical outcomes, some favorable to film photography, some
    not.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by markwny View Post
    Thanks for the link Mark. Unfortunately, they don't list any 4x5 sheet film though. I normally buy from B&H, but they have listed he Fujicolor sheet film as no longer available. However, I see that East Coast Photo says they have it in stock. Anybody have any experience with them?
    Wow, I never noticed that, you're right! Nothing in sheet film sizes for color film shown. Perhaps if Kodak film does go bye-bye Fuji will find it profitable enough to restore the sheet film sizes.

  4. #24

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    http://www.fujifilm.com/products/pro...specifications

    They apparently do make 4x5 and 8x10 in their Fujicolor Pro 160NS, which is their answer to Portra.

  5. #25

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    If there is no lab, just develop your color negative films by yourself

  6. #26

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    Nonsense. If there are no volume labs there will be no incentive for anyone to keep making c41
    chemisty. Overall hobby use is miniscule in the big picture. But given the importance of ra4 paper in
    commercial applications, I would doubt that all professional color neg film would simply disappear.
    There are quite a few pro photographers out there who can't afford to constantly upgrade MF digital
    gear, and who just aren't content with DSLR color quality at the moment. Sheet film is really in a
    different category from roll film because it's generally coated on a different base. So the survival of
    one format category doesn't automatically ensure the survival of another. Time will tell. But Fuji is
    certainly technically capable of keeping all this alive is Kodak tanks.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Nonsense. If there are no volume labs there will be no incentive for anyone to keep making c41
    chemisty. Overall hobby use is miniscule in the big picture. But given the importance of ra4 paper in
    commercial applications, I would doubt that all professional color neg film would simply disappear.
    There are quite a few pro photographers out there who can't afford to constantly upgrade MF digital
    gear, and who just aren't content with DSLR color quality at the moment. Sheet film is really in a
    different category from roll film because it's generally coated on a different base. So the survival of
    one format category doesn't automatically ensure the survival of another. Time will tell. But Fuji is
    certainly technically capable of keeping all this alive is Kodak tanks.
    Why wouldn't there be demand to produce chemistry? The Jobo and similar 3 bath kits are made specially for the hobby industry! Realistically, if C-41 chemicals cease to be manufactured by all of the film producers (Kodak, Fuji, etc) that would invariably mean that they are also no longer producing film, and most likely, they would cease film production some time before ceasing chemical production to allow for the demand of existing film stock to be used up. So the real problem wouldn't be lack of chemistry, it would be lack of film! But I'm not too concerned about that. In manufacturing terms, making C-41 film is not a particularly complex process. It would not be difficult for a smaller, more agile company to step in and fill the niche. It's been proven already with Ilford, and more recently Impossible.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteZ8 View Post
    Why wouldn't there be demand to produce chemistry? The Jobo and similar 3 bath kits are made specially for the hobby industry!
    There are some hard to make chemicals which are used for color photography but probably nowhere else, think about CD3 and CD4. While CD3 is also used in the RA4 process (jay for slide shooters! ), I'd be a bit worried about CD4 (for C41). Jobo certainly doesn't make either chemical, and Rollei doesn't even mix the kit themselves, they use Fuji soup.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteZ8 View Post
    Realistically, if C-41 chemicals cease to be manufactured by all of the film producers (Kodak, Fuji, etc) that would invariably mean that they are also no longer producing film, and most likely, they would cease film production some time before ceasing chemical production to allow for the demand of existing film stock to be used up. So the real problem wouldn't be lack of chemistry, it would be lack of film! But I'm not too concerned about that. In manufacturing terms, making C-41 film is not a particularly complex process. It would not be difficult for a smaller, more agile company to step in and fill the niche. It's been proven already with Ilford, and more recently Impossible.
    I would be personally interested how long one could possibly store some of the "critical" chemicals going into C41/E6/RA4. Also don't forget, that while Ilford does indeed make a C41 compatible film, they do not make a C41 colour film. The complexity of handling three balanced colour layers could well be much higher than what goes into XP2.

    What makes me hopeful about C41 processing is that it is more or less decoupled from movie film, so any declines in movie film sales should not directly affect C41 chemistry. So the manufacture of C41 chems does indeed seem viable at small scales.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  9. #29

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    Let me put it this way: Jobo itself has been out of business awhile due do dramatically decreased demand for hobby or home darkroom applications. Small batch consumption of film development chemicals are probably less than 2% of the overall volume of C41 or E6, and I think even that would
    be an unrealistically high estimate. Making these kinds of chemicals require a substantial investment,
    and we small-volume users are just purchasing a tiny amount of the leftovers. This certainly doesn't
    make me pessimistic. I'm gambling that C41 will be commercially available for a number of years.
    It's not something proprietary to Kodak. But nobody is going to keep a product on the market just for
    fun.

  10. #30

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    I should have repeated what I've stated before. The very popular RA4 papers like Crystal Archive are
    basically bigamist. They're married to both digital output involving scanning, and to traditional enlargement. The momentem of this seems solid for now, so it would really be counterproductive if
    either C41 or E6 dropped off the map. You need one of both. Direct capture digital is more often going straight to inkjet if it is printed at all. All you high-end digital printers like Lambda, Lightjet, and
    Chromira probably print far more scaneed film images than direct digital capture. I think it is very
    very premature to start talking about the extinction of C41 or E6, simply because RA4 itself seems
    very healthy.

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