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  1. #61
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefan4u View Post
    If you have a larger stock of this somehow aged film...
    We don't know when this emulsion had been made and coated and how it had been stored meanwhile.

    By own statement Agfa did order a supply of some years of colour emulsions at AgfaPhoto in insolvency for deep freeze. Short after they built up again colour emulsion making/coating facilities again after such had been relocated to the Leverkusen plant years ago.

  2. #62

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    Anyway, a kind of adjusting the chemistry and the workflow seems to be obligate, if you see such a strange result.
    This was, by the way, the reason why I started homebrewing E6 chemicals a few years ago...
    Maybe it will be easier for most people to try a slight pull development, and a slightly more acidic CD for home developing with “normal” chemicals.

    Beside heavy photoshopping after scanning only disposal and banning the vendor will be an alternative…

    Regards, Stefan

  3. #63

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    Polyglot brings up some interesting points about E-6 processing.

    I have had my CR-200 processed by a Kodak certified lab, the CR-200 was processed at the same time, same run as my other rolls of slide film, Velvia, Ektachrome, Agfa CT-Precisa (The Real German Precisa) and a roll of RSXII 200 film, all the films looked perfect except the CR-200 which was heavy yellow and nasty looking.

    Here we are almost a year later, I purchased a 100 foot roll of Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 from Wittner-Cinetec in Germany which is the same material as CR-200, rolled up a couple of rolls and sent them to the same Kodak Certified lab along with 2 more rolls of German made RSXII 200 ASA, Lo and behold all rolls look fabulous, it was a bit hard at first to really figure out which roll was which.

    I have used Agfa slide film for years, never a problem unless the roll was really old and outdated, stored poorly even then the results were never as bad as this CR-200, This CR-200 is the only Agfa slide film I have ever had trouble with.

    I would imagine sometimes during "Home" processed E-6 some errors may occur but most home lab people are highly motivated, experienced and are really proficient at what they do, all the other brands of slide film turn out well except for CR-200, People that do home lab have found ways to take care of CR-200's weirdness but one should not have to go through all that for what is sold as a normal E-6 slide film.

    Agfa is a very competent film producer, if there were some kind of problem with color balance, the way the film behaves in processing Agfa would immediatly get after the problem and take care of it, Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 is supposed to be the same emulsion as RSXII 200, this film was perfected back in 1996, anyone experiencing a "Yellow" problem with RSXII? Have not heard of it.

    On the Wittner-Cinetec website they comment on this film: "Color film with high saturation, excellent sharpness and precise gray balance. Very high geometric and long term stability, good-natured behavior when processing and development"

    The Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 from Wittner-Cinetec has made life easy and predictable both in professional lab and home development, easy to get fabulous color slides ready for projection, really hard to tell the difference between the original RSXII 200 from Germany and this new stock from Wittner-Cinetec.
    Last edited by Alpenhause; 06-17-2013 at 12:08 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #64

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    Hey Folks, Look at this, I grabbed a photo off the Wittner-Cinetec website of a load of fresh film from Agfa Belgium.

    Judging from the size of the boxes this could very well be the size of the rolls Purchased by Wittner-Cinetec, not real sure of how big the rolls are but you can bet any size you want can be cut from them, even 8 X 10 sheet film sizes.

    It is quite interesting to see what size rolls are sold to 3rd party vendors to cut down and repackage.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20130118-1a_g.jpg  

  5. #65

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    Here it is!

    The Text from the official Agfa Belgium Pdf for Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200, this is the film that is cut down and sold to Maco/Rollei, Lomography, and Wittner-Cinetec.

    I did not include the charts from the Agfa Pdf.

    Trade names used by third parties:

    CR-200, Lomography X-Pro Slide, Wittner 200D movie film


    AVIPHOT CHROME 200 PE1
    Panchromatic colour reversal film
    Aviphot Chrome 200 PE1 is a panchromatic colour reversal film for aerial photography from low to medium altitude (15,000 ft or approx. 5,000 m). The film has a clear, dimensionally stable polyester base.
    Thickness of the base: 0.10 mm; total thickness: 0.126 mm.
    ������
    Applications
    Aviphot Chrome 200 PE1 is designed for making aerial photographs in different types of cameras. The film is used for the interpretation of aerial photographs, in photogrammetry, for reconnaissance and publicity.
    Although this is a chrome diapositive, the film renders clear information in the shadows thanks to its excellent contrast properties.
    This film is particularly suitable for mapping and oblique photography. Since the images can be used directly in plotting equipment, copying is superfluous.
    Prints can be generated on Agfa’s Rapitone C1 & C2 colour paper using an internegative film.

    Features
    • Sharp image, even in the smallest details.
    • High colour saturation and colour purity.
    • Exact grey balance.
    • Good reciprocity characteristics.
    • Good processing stability.
    • Processing in ASP 44 or E6 chemistry.
    • Good archival properties when correctly processed.
    • Excellent dimensional stability

    Photographic data
    General sensitivity
    ISO 200/24.
    ASA 200.
    DIN 24.

    Colour rendering
    A UV filter prevents colour shifts and unsharpness due to UV radiation. An interlayer prevents the diffusion of unwanted colour dyes form one sensitive layer into another. So, the colours are well separated and the colour saturation is very good. Aviphot Chrome 200 is suitable for a colour temperature of 5500K.
    Fine grain
    As some of the silver crystals have a flat structure, a lot of sensitisers can adhere to their large surface. As a consequence, the film combines high sensitivity with fine grain. The size of the crystals is as good as uniform. For greater improvement of the granularity each sensitive layer is composed of a fast and a slow layer.
    RMS granularity
    Diffuse RMS granularity (x1000) = 12.
    Measured at diffuse density of 1.0 and with visual filter and a 48μm aperture.
    TOC (Target Object Contrast)
    Measured according to ANSI PH 22.23-1980.
    TOC 1000:1 = 110 lp/mm or 220 dots/mm.
    TOC 1.6:1 = 50 lp/mm or 100 dots/mm.

    Darkroom lighting �� Production Guidelines
    The film has to be handled in total darkness.
    Exposure
    The sensitivity of the film is 200 ASA. It can be exposed in all classical cameras. Exposure depends on the light reflected by the earth, the altitude and flying speed of the aircraft and processing conditions (pushed or not).
    Processing
    Automatic processing in roller processors.
    Aviphot Chrome 200 can be developed in Agfa ASP 44 Process or in compatible chemistry (E6). By increasing the developing time in the first developer by 3 minutes, the film speed can be doubled.
    Pushed processing may reduce the maximum density and show a less pleasing image.
    Storage
    Unexposed Aviphot Chrome 200 films should be stored in their original packaging, in a cool (under +13 °C) and dry place. When the films are kept in deep freeze (under –10 °C) their photographic properties can be kept stable for a longer period of time. After they are taken out of the deep freeze the films have to be kept for about 12 hours in room temperature before opening the original packaging. Otherwise, the humidity from the air may condense on the films.
    Once the original packaging has been removed, the films should not be exposed to high temperatures or high relative humidity for a long time and it should be protected from noxious fumes.
    Exposed films have to be processed immediately. Particularly under the influence of unfavourable climatic conditions, such as high temperatures and high relative humidity, the latent image may change and so may the colour balance. Processed films have to be stored in a cool and dry room, protected from noxious fumes (e.g. formalin, turpentine and mercury vapours, hydrogen sulphide, ammonia) and from the direct influence of light.

    Assortment
    Aviphot Chrome 200 PE1
    Size
    Spool/Winding/Perforation
    Order code
    24 cm x 76 m
    9.7/16 in x 249 ft
    AH897 – EI – NP
    3DEUQ
    24 cm x 135 m
    9.7/16 in x 443 ft
    AM897 – EI – NP
    3DE13
    * For all other sizes, please contact your local Agfa representative.
    Sizes roll film: 16mm, 35mm, 70mm, 80mm, 126mm, 190mm, 240mm, 320mm.
    Subject to changes without prior notice.
    AGFA, the Agfa-Rhombus, Agfachrome and Aviphot are trademarks Agfa-Gevaert N.V., Belgium.
    © 2009 Agfa-Gevaert N.V., Mortsel-Belgium.
    January 2009

  6. #66

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    Thanks for the data dump. Regarding granularity...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenhause View Post
    Diffuse RMS granularity (x1000) = 12.
    ...that's pretty high considering the speed, a bit grainier than Provia 400X. I'm not immediately conviced that the Rollei/Maco film is performing worse than spec in that regard; to me, what I've shot of it looks, well, a bit grainier than Provia 400X.

    Which is why getting it in 120 would be nice; it seems like a perfectly good film when the color balance is behaving, but I've found it just a bit too grainy in 35mm, especially considering that I ended up shooting it at EI 160---for a speed gain of 2/3 stop over Provia 100F, that's just too much grain for my taste. YMMV and all that, of course.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  7. #67

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    Here's something to think about, the datasheet quoted says that film speed can be doubled by increasing the first developer time by 3 mins, could the same be said if you reduced its film speed down to ISO 100 for example and reduced the first developer time? Or is that not possible?
    I have read that shooting any film at a lower film speed can give you finer grain, but i guess you would have to compensate with development in some way or else you would have an under exposed image?

  8. #68

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    You could send the Aviphot Chrome 200 to a lab and ask for a "Pull" of one stop or... do it with home E-6 and see what happens, be interesting to try, just about all E-6 chemistry kits have details about "Push" or "Pull" ASA modification.

    I found a thread on APUG from 2009 discussing the CR-200, people seemed to like it, no reports of "Yellow" film were reported, This kind of supports my theory that a "Bad Batch" was released to the public.

    The users of the Lomography X-Pro Slide 200 do not seem to be reporting any "yellow" film but then again it would seem that that film is more often than not cross processed in C-41.

    Friends of mine have purchased Lomography X-Pro Slide 200 in the 120 size and say it looks fine, Does Lomography purchase Aviphot Chrome 200 direct from Agfa and cut it down or is Maco/Rollei doing the packaging for them?

    The Lomography people are quite secretive sometimes about their films and often ignore questions about their film.

  9. #69

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    Hey Folks,

    Look at the lomgraphy site http://www.lomography.com/photos/fil...e-200-iso-35mm These are photo sample thumbnails that you can click on, I am seeing perfect examples of the strong "Yellow" cast to them, others look quite good. the only mystery being is the captions by each shot do not say if the X-Pro Slide 200 (Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200) was processed in C-41 or E-6.

    This will indeed confirm some of the mysteries? Provide some answers? I think you will be amazed!

    Perhaps the "yellow" film has desireable qualities Lomographers want?

    I don't really want to draw any conclusions by looking at the samples on the Lomography website, I wonder if any of the images were indeed E-6 processed?
    Last edited by Alpenhause; 06-17-2013 at 06:27 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenhause View Post
    Hey Folks,

    Look at the lomgraphy site http://www.lomography.com/photos/fil...e-200-iso-35mm These are photo sample thumbnails that you can click on, I am seeing perfect examples of the strong "Yellow" cast to them, others look quite good. the only mystery being is the captions by each shot do not say if the X-Pro Slide 200 (Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200) was processed in C-41 or E-6.

    This will indeed confirm some of the mysteries? Provide some answers? I think you will be amazed!

    Perhaps the "yellow" film has desireable qualities Lomographers want?
    Quite true, it should also be pointed out that lomographers love to use expired films, and the effects that it gives.

    Anyway, here's a heads up from Wittner-Cinetec, they are looking at the options for packaging this film in 36exp film canisters.
    Is anyone concerned about having the film DX coded?
    It doesnt really bother me at all personally, and id rather them save their time and effort to keep the costs down as much as possible. I dont think CR200 is DX coded anyway.
    Im just glad we have a supplier that I know we can trust the quality of without uncertainty on the results once processed.

    Here's their response, any feedback will be great.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    thank you for your message.
    We will look into finishing 135 film cartridges very soon.
    36 exposures film I think.

    Do you think DX code is important?
    Obviously we can more easily obtain non DX coded cartridges.
    Would that be a problem?

    And: Which price per film (36 exp.) would be acceptable for you?

    I think we can do it, but I need to gather some more information
    (light signature, frame numbers, cartridge, packaging etc.).

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen
    Best regards

    Ingolf Joost
    Last edited by Nzoomed; 06-17-2013 at 08:03 PM. Click to view previous post history.



 

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