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  1. #11
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    In addition to a B&W developer, you'll need to bleach out the negative image silver that develops, otherwise your re-exposure will just result in density over the entire film.

    Fascinating idea, and worth trying at least once. I shudder to to think what a dichromate/sulfuric-acid bleach (which will be necessary) might do to the coupler chemistry though.

    There shouldn't be any damage from contamination, but that's assuming you've washed it properly after these steps.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  2. #12

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    Ok, so what are the steps I should take then? From what I've read it's simply:
    1. BW developer
    2. Stop (optional)
    3. Wash
    4. Second esposure
    5. regular c41 process

    Wouldn't adding a bleach step result in negative images?

  3. #13
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    Wait... I may have mispoke...

    It just occured to me that the b&w negative image will be silver only (no dye), and thus will be bleached away in the C-41 process.

    Check this out... http://www.flickr.com/photos/pochedu...ith/472601937/

  4. #14

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    Yeah, I know about accelerating, but doesn't the process leave me with a negative image?

    Next post I'll link you the thread where someone did exactly what I'm going for.

  5. #15

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    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/6...ange-mask.html

    Here it is, note the picture of a strip of Superia on the second page.

  6. #16
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    I don't fully understand this film acceleration stuff, and last night I laid in bed counting film layers (as opposed to sheep) trying to reason it out. Understanding that might help in figuring out what your proposed process might do.

    Anyone care to make sense of it?

    This is me thinking aloud about your proposal...

    If you've exposed an E6 film and developed it in a b&w developer, you're turning the latent negative image to metallic silver without forming any color, because there is no color-coupling developer present (duh). By re-exposing it, and then subjecting this new latent image to a color-coupling developer (C-41 process), there will be formation of dyes only where there is developable silver; primarily confined to the positive image.

    However, there will be a fair amount of developable silver even in the negative image, despite being developed prior. Your initial camera exposure won't use it all up, and your re-exposure will be complete; every remaining silver-halide will become developable. This might result in lots of strange colored fog(??).

    Assuming the positive image dominates though, it seems reasonable that you'll get a positive color image of some sort (no doubt interesting).

    Does that seem logical, or am I missing something?

    p.s. Is this the superia shot you're referring to?
    Last edited by holmburgers; 03-02-2012 at 11:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonFreeman View Post
    Hello again.

    Yeah, I'm aware that the colors could not turn out perfect, but I still want to give the process a try. This thread - apparently I can't post links yet, google: "bleaching out c41 orange mask" - has some interesting results by the same technique. The picture of a roll of Superia 800 on page 2 where the OP actually managed to remove the orange mask and produce almost normal-looking slides is really interesting.
    The post in question: http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=870516
    Steve.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    p.s. Is this the superia shot you're referring to?
    Yeah, that's the one.

  9. #19
    mts
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    There is no orange mask in your E6 film! Posts regarding bleaching out the mask are not relevant to your original post. Indeed there is an admixture of unexposed and developed silver following the first developer, because these unexposed grains will form the positive dye image when developed by the second (color) developer. Re-exposure (reversal) must completely expose all the halide that was not processed by the first developer.

    Following first developer you need to use a color stop bath that is 1-2% acetic acid with 1% or so of bisulfite and follow that with a good wash. After drying the film could indeed be run through a standard C41 process that will develop the positive dye image, bleach its silver back to halide, and remove all the halide with fixer. Your lab will no doubt wonder how a positive image was created if you fail to tell them what you are doing.

    A number of the replys to your original post have evidently mixed apples and oranges (or orange masks). The masking is a property of color negative film and is not present in positive E6 emulsions. An old American baseball manager named Casey Stengle once said, "doesn't anybody here know how this game is played?"
    By denying the facts, any paradox can be sustained--Galileo

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mts View Post
    There is no orange mask in your E6 film! Posts regarding bleaching out the mask are not relevant to your original post.
    Yeah, I know that there is no mask in E6 film, why I referred to that thread was because I want to use the exact same technique, only on E6 film.

    Quote Originally Posted by mts View Post
    Following first developer you need to use a color stop bath that is 1-2% acetic acid with 1% or so of bisulfite and follow that with a good wash. After drying the film could indeed be run through a standard C41 process that will develop the positive dye image, bleach its silver back to halide, and remove all the halide with fixer. Your lab will no doubt wonder how a positive image was created if you fail to tell them what you are doing.
    How does the color stop bath differ from Ilfostop or any other BW stop bath? Can I tell my lab that the film is not going to mess up their chems then?

    How long should the re-exposure last?

    Thanks for your answer btw, your remark about mixing apples and oranges was spot on.

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