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  1. #21
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    By retracting the dome you are using a flat plane and restricting the acceptance angle of the meter so it can only "see" what you are pointing it at without being effected by the surroundings with my meter a Sekonic L-358 with the dome retracted I point it from the subject to the camera and take a meter reading then press the memory button next I point the meter at the light source take another meter reading and press the memory button again, then all you do is press the average button and set that reading on your camera, this method is also good to use in the studio with studio strobes to calculate the contrast ratio between each flash head on the subject.
    Great minds think alike!

    We even use the same meter.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #22
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araakii View Post
    Suppose there's late afternoon night illuminating your subject. What I first look for is if he/she is wearing anything that would reflect strong light. If not, then you can simply shoot at the exposure recommended by the incident meter and then if you want to tone it down a little bit, you can do it at the printing/scanning step.
    With E-6 missing the "best" exposure for any given shot means losing forever details that may be very important. For example being one stop over exposed can well mean having no definition in the clouds, it simply won't be there to fix regardless of the tools in use.

    Also if the intent is projection, it's either right or it's not.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #23
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Great minds think alike!

    We even use the same meter.
    Thanks Mark, unfortunately my mind's not as great as it once was with advancing age, but I still appreciate a good light meter, and I'm really into digital ones, I also have a Gossen Digipro and a Kenko KFM 2100 .
    Ben

  4. #24
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    My personal rule with transparency film and incidental light metering is with an exceptionally light subject against a light background I reduce the exposure by half a stop, and with a dark subject and background increase it by the same amount, but none of this is written in stone the best way to learn about how to correctly expose slides is to do it make mistakes and learn by them, there aren't any painless ways without wasting film and effort that you are going to learn on internet forums.
    Ben

  5. #25
    EASmithV's Avatar
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    Reading this really enlightens me with how bad I am with metering... I usually just roll with whatever my meter gives me, or take 3 readings in the dark/mid/light zones of the image area and average them.

    I'm not quite sure I understand the advantages of duplexing... I set up a test subject and using the method discussed earlier to meter, my readings agree with what my matrix meter in camera is telling me to use anyway.
    Last edited by EASmithV; 03-03-2012 at 08:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    www.EASmithV.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."— Dorothea Lange
    http://www.flickr.com/easmithv/
    RIP Kodachrome

  6. #26
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    An incident reading will work for a lot of normal subjects without a very wide brightness range.

    The underlying principle of exposure in the zone system is actually the same for negative or reversal film: expose for the value that represents the minimum density on film.

    So with negative film expose for the shadows; with reversal film expose for the highlights.

    I do some bird photography, and if I'm photographing a white bird, then I'll spot meter the white feathers and open up 1-1/3 stops from what the meter considers a middle grey, because that's as bright as a film like Provia 100F will let me get it before blowing out the highlights, and the shadows will fall where they may.

    If it's mid-day and the sun is high in the sky, I'll probably just take a break and have lunch, because the light is too contrasty for bird photography with slide film, unless I've brought a flash to balance the harsh light from the sun and fill shadows from branches and such.

    If you don't spot meter and only have the incident meter, then you have to be a bit more conscious to compensate for bright white subjects and experiment to see how much you need to stop down with the film you're using in those situations.

    Also, bracket. You may find that there's a range of "correct" exposures +/- 2/3 of a stop, and it depends on what you want to emphasize, and you won't know what's best until you've got the slides on the light table in front of you.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #27
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EASmithV View Post
    Reading this really enlightens me with how bad I am with metering... I usually just roll with whatever my meter gives me, or take 3 readings in the dark/mid/light zones of the image area and average them.

    I'm not quite sure I understand the advantages of duplexing... I set up a test subject and using the method discussed earlier to meter, my readings agree with what my matrix meter in camera is telling me to use anyway.
    It's not a surprise that a matrix meter would agree with duplexing for many shots. The goal of each is the same.

    The difference is that incident metering doesn't easily get fooled by changes in scene reflectivity. A white wedding on a ski slope is easy with duplexed incident metering, it takes a bit more thought with reflective meters.

    I said this before but it bears repeating, setting exposure is a compromise between the needs of competing subjects.

    Duplexing measures two things.

    1-A Highlight peg. Meter pointed straight at the light source.

    2-A Mid-tone peg. Meter pointed toward the camera, hopefully parralel to lens axis.

    The highlight peg used by itself, in theory should protect against almost all overexposure. This isn't like a spot meter reading though, even pointed at the sun this is essentially measuring something close to what would be used for a "front lit" exposure value. For a front lit photo you could almost stop here, as the light swings around your subject though stuff facing the camera can start to go into silhouette. If that's your intent, great; if not you need to adjust.

    In terms or light swinging around your subject think Lahaina Noon, in Hawaii the sun reaches a point during the year where when standing upright at noon you don't cast a shadow except on your own feet. At Lahaina Noon, if someone is wearing a wide brimmed sun hat they can be fully lit as if they are in open shade, but their hat and surroundings are in full sun.

    The mid-tone peg used by itself, in theory, will place subjects that are facing the camera at normal brightness levels. For example, faces looking at the camera will fall at a "normal" brightness level. This reading by itself doesn't consider the background or the main light.

    Duplexing averages these two pegs together.

    In the Lahaina Noon situation the mid-tone peg taken at the subjects nose, under their hat will try to protect detail and brightness in their face and clothing. The highlight peg will try to protect details in the clouds and on top of the hat.

    Averaging the two readings is simply a recognition of the reality that we have to compromise. Duplexing provides a very reliable compromise.

    The only way to avoid an exposure compromise like this example at Lahaina Noon with a subject under a big hat is to use artificial lighting, reflectors, speed lights, table lamps, movie lights, or whatever to light the subject to your preference.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  8. #28

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    I have a love hate relationship with transparency film: I love it and it seems to hate me these days. Metering it can be difficult. When in doubt or in unrepeatable situations BRACKET.

    Here is what I was taught to do if you wanted to get good consistent shots
    1-Practice in different lighting situations - Dawn, Morning, Mid day, evening, dusk and different subjects
    2-Bracket all of those shots
    3-Write notes after all bracketing is done
    4-develope film but have it sleeved not put into slide mounts
    5-Cut the three to five bracketed shots so they are all together
    6-Using a GOOD light table examine them and write notes about each exposure on the same page you wrote the exposure info

    Of course this was done when film was cheap. It is not anymore but this helped me a lot. I could incident meter something and know from my studies what to do to get what I wanted. Hope this helps.

    I should probably do this exercise again to get over the hump I am climbing.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  9. #29
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    It's not a surprise that a matrix meter would agree with duplexing for many shots. The goal of each is the same.

    The difference is that incident metering doesn't easily get fooled by changes in scene reflectivity. A white wedding on a ski slope is easy with duplexed incident metering, it takes a bit more thought with reflective meters.

    I said this before but it bears repeating, setting exposure is a compromise between the needs of competing subjects.

    Duplexing measures two things.

    1-A Highlight peg. Meter pointed straight at the light source.

    2-A Mid-tone peg. Meter pointed toward the camera, hopefully parralel to lens axis.

    The highlight peg used by itself, in theory should protect against almost all overexposure. This isn't like a spot meter reading though, even pointed at the sun this is essentially measuring something close to what would be used for a "front lit" exposure value. For a front lit photo you could almost stop here, as the light swings around your subject though stuff facing the camera can start to go into silhouette. If that's your intent, great; if not you need to adjust.

    In terms or light swinging around your subject think Lahaina Noon, in Hawaii the sun reaches a point during the year where when standing upright at noon you don't cast a shadow except on your own feet. At Lahaina Noon, if someone is wearing a wide brimmed sun hat they can be fully lit as if they are in open shade, but their hat and surroundings are in full sun.

    The mid-tone peg used by itself, in theory, will place subjects that are facing the camera at normal brightness levels. For example, faces looking at the camera will fall at a "normal" brightness level. This reading by itself doesn't consider the background or the main light.

    Duplexing averages these two pegs together.

    In the Lahaina Noon situation the mid-tone peg taken at the subjects nose, under their hat will try to protect detail and brightness in their face and clothing. The highlight peg will try to protect details in the clouds and on top of the hat.

    Averaging the two readings is simply a recognition of the reality that we have to compromise. Duplexing provides a very reliable compromise.

    The only way to avoid an exposure compromise like this example at Lahaina Noon with a subject under a big hat is to use artificial lighting, reflectors, speed lights, table lamps, movie lights, or whatever to light the subject to your preference.
    Marks remarks agree with my experience of using The Duplex Method of metering since I first read about it in The Exposure Manual by Dunn and Wakefield about thirty years ago and I have used it since then, it's very simple to use, and I find it produces a higher proportion of acceptable/correct exposures for me on slide film than any other method.
    Ben

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