Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,840   Posts: 1,582,544   Online: 1014
      
Page 10 of 39 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314151620 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 386
  1. #91

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    544
    Congratulations, Stephen; a really interesting thread. Be ready to seal up your letter box against a flood of Kodachrome and move to Tassie... j/k :-D

    Quote Originally Posted by ME Super View Post
    <snipped>
    <tongue-in-cheek>Who's gonna start making this new Apugchrome film and a camera to shoot it in? </tongue-in-cheek>
    Where *is* TerryM. these days? :-D

    Cheers,
    kevs
    testing...

  2. #92
    Worker 11811's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    Sorry to sound such a buzz kill I just don't want people thinking this little test is the birth of a new Kodachrome process...
    I understand what people are saying that the Kodachrome process has been available to those who want to learn for years. I don't mean to sound like it's a deep, dark secret.

    To draw an analogy...
    The projection room of a movie theater is usually a pretty "closed" area. People who are not operators or managers or who don't know an operator or a manager are typically excluded from the projection room except on special occasions like theater openings or behind-the-scenes tours.
    Yes, you can read about cinema projectors and you can buy the equipment if you have the money but it's pretty difficult to learn to be a cinema tech unless you learn from another cinema tech.

    I think the same thing goes for the Kodachrome process.
    Yes, we can read about the K-14 process. We can see pictures of K-Labs and learn how they work but, unless you worked in a photo lab and were trained how to do the process, Kodachrome has historically been a "closed" area of expertise.

    I do not entertain any ideas that I or anybody else is going to run out tomorrow and start learning how to process Kodachrome. I'm only saying that what was once "closed" is becoming open.

    It's too bad this didn't happen ten years ago. Maybe there would have been enough demand for product if people knew they could process the film themselves.
    At what difficulty or what cost, I don't know. I'm only saying that one of the things that might have led to Kodachrome falling by the wayside is the fact that too many people didn't understand it on a practical level.

    It's a shame that this practical understanding didn't become more widespread until after the product ceased to be manufactured.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  3. #93

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    544
    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    I understand what people are saying that the Kodachrome process has been available to those who want to learn for years. I don't mean to sound like it's a deep, dark secret.

    To draw an analogy...
    The projection room of a movie theater is usually a pretty "closed" area. People who are not operators or managers or who don't know an operator or a manager are typically excluded from the projection room except on special occasions like theater openings or behind-the-scenes tours.
    Yes, you can read about cinema projectors and you can buy the equipment if you have the money but it's pretty difficult to learn to be a cinema tech unless you learn from another cinema tech.

    I think the same thing goes for the Kodachrome process.
    Yes, we can read about the K-14 process. We can see pictures of K-Labs and learn how they work but, unless you worked in a photo lab and were trained how to do the process, Kodachrome has historically been a "closed" area of expertise.

    I do not entertain any ideas that I or anybody else is going to run out tomorrow and start learning how to process Kodachrome. I'm only saying that what was once "closed" is becoming open.

    It's too bad this didn't happen ten years ago. Maybe there would have been enough demand for product if people knew they could process the film themselves.
    At what difficulty or what cost, I don't know. I'm only saying that one of the things that might have led to Kodachrome falling by the wayside is the fact that too many people didn't understand it on a practical level.

    It's a shame that this practical understanding didn't become more widespread until after the product ceased to be manufactured.
    This is very interesting and Stephen has made an encouraging achievement. But I think the only thing that has changed is that a very dedicated enthusiast has managed to do what Dwayne's has been routinely doing for 20+ years. I don't think many professional users would have developed Kodachrome themselves- they're busy earning money - and it was pro users that kept Kodachrome viable. If the sales volume had been there, Kodachrome would still be available and would still be processed by Dwayne's.

    The Kodachrome patents have been publicly available for years, as has the K-Lab manual (http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/...als/z50_01.pdf). Read the epic 'Kodak retires Kodachrome film' thread where PE discusses Kodak releasing the patents and Fuji's non-substantive film product. It's all out there.

    I think this is more analogous to (say) China sending astronauts to the moon. We know it's possible, it has been done before and the science is freely available, but the necessary vehicles, equipment etc. aren't cheap or readily available - you'd have to build your own Saturn V rockets (or modern equivalent) from scratch.

    IMO, this is the equivalent of Apollo 8 though. :-)

    Cheers,
    kevs
    testing...

  4. #94
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,530
    Images
    65
    Kevs;

    Steve has proven what I have known all along, and that is that Kodachrome can be processed at home. In your lab. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then, well............. IDK what to say.

    PE

  5. #95
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,384
    Images
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Kevs;

    Steve has proven what I have known all along, and that is that Kodachrome can be processed at home. In your lab. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then, well............. IDK what to say.

    PE
    To be fair while you could process it at home you cant simply do it in your bathroom. you need a big big sink for each step of the chemistry and need a printing bay so you can do the re exposures and this requires space. You also Need to take into account that TEMPERATURES ARE CRITICAL. so u must have a method of regulating the temp of each bath. Also unlike processing black and white the chemical process will take you over an hour and a half. All in all its about a 2 hour round trip start to finish and most of its in darkness.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  6. #96

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    871
    I would say that for most people home processing of Kodachrome may be out-of-reach if all you have is a developing tank, reels, and a blue and red filter. The mobius strip hand processor spoken about earlier in this thread would be a tool that would make it much easier to process Kodachrome at home. Sort of like the difference between changing the heating element in an electric hot water heater. Difficult to do if all you have is a screwdriver and a pipe wrench. Much easier if you go spend a little money on the heating element removal tool. Proper tools, even if they're not to the degree of sophistication of the K-lab, would definitely make this easier to process at home. Not as easy as E-6, but possible.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  7. #97

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    To be fair while you could process it at home you cant simply do it in your bathroom. you need a big big sink for each step of the chemistry and need a printing bay so you can do the re exposures and this requires space. You also Need to take into account that TEMPERATURES ARE CRITICAL. so u must have a method of regulating the temp of each bath. Also unlike processing black and white the chemical process will take you over an hour and a half. All in all its about a 2 hour round trip start to finish and most of its in darkness.
    Temperatures are critical with both C-41 and E-6 in addition to K-14. If somebody's setup can handle C-14 or E-6 temperature regulation, it's not much of a stretch IMHO to make it handle K-14 temperature regulation. People have processed E-6 with a tub of warm water and an aquarium heater to regulate temperature. It doesn't take any more than that to keep temperature constant for color. It's the re-exposure and number of steps that IMHO makes K-14 a complex process to try to do at home. Not impossible, but more complex than E-6 or C-41.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  8. #98
    Worker 11811's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,628
    I think the mobius loop is a workable solution. Someday, I might "invent" it.

    However, I already have the G-3 tank I mentioned above. I think that is a good alternative that uses existing equipment off the shelf.
    We would need some of that plastic "apron" the others mention above to make my idea work.

    In the dark, load the film onto the reel, emusion in, and wind in the plastic apron.
    Develop, etc., and expose to red light throught the portal in the side of the tank. (Crank the film.)
    Redevelop.
    In the dark, open the tank, flip the reel of film over and "S-Wind" the film to the other reel.
    Close the tank and expose to blue light through the portal. (Crank the film.)
    Redevelop.
    Chemically fog the third layer, redevelop and complet the process.

    So far, this seems workable. It flips the film over but the plastic apron is in the way.
    I need to figure out how to move the plastic apron to the other side.
    Will probably have to unwind and rewind.

    If this can work, you won't need to use the printing bay to lay out the film. It can all be done inside the G-3 tank.

    I think I'll have to go get some regular reversal film and play with the tank to see how well it works and to figure things out.

    Regardless, I still think this can be done and, except for the chemistry, this won't be THAT hard.
    (As I said before, mere Alchemy versus black magic. )
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  9. #99
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,384
    Images
    174
    Ok I don't want to sound stupid, but if a small tank can be used why have I only heard of people before me hand processing kodachrome by a sink line system of small tanks where they systematically dip and dunk the film though each bath? wouldnt small tank have been done already and perhaps made kodachrome possible in a kit version? I sense some big problems with the G3 (morse) type tank system for this process.....but I wish you the best of luck with it.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  10. #100

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    806
    unfortunately, by the time any sort of home-processing becomes viable, all the existing film will be hopelessly out of date and magenta-shifted. >:-/



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin