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  1. #141
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Not really Bill. It is far more complex than that, but that too!

    PE

  2. #142
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    I know that this is dedicated to the Kodachrome celluloid product and I'm sure that most people, myself included, recognise Kodachrome as the slide film made by Kodak invented in the mid thirties.

    However, it might be interesting to note that the years leading up to the First World War, the word "Kodachrome" was in fact used to denote another product that used a 2 colour process. You took two different negatives through filters and made two glass plates which were bleached and dyed – one in a kind of bluish green and the other a sort of burnt orange colour, and when you took these two positive transparencies together in registration on a light table, it made the appearance of a full colour photograph.

    I remember hearing of this process in a video somewhere, I cannot recall where (sorry about that >.<), but the original Kodachrome process might in an interesting process to undertake if one manages to find out how it works. It doesn't strike me as a overly complicated procedure, but I am having a hard time finding relevant literature on the matter. Perhaps someone here might be able to discover something? Vires in numeris, after all, right?
    Last edited by Swellastic; 05-01-2012 at 08:08 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swellastic View Post
    I know that this is dedicated to the Kodachrome celluloid product and I'm sure that most people, myself included, recognise Kodachrome as the slide film made by Kodak invented in the mid thirties.

    However...
    Swellastic, I'm glad you brought up John G. Capstaff's Kodachrome; maybe the most affecting 2-color process to date.

    This post over at New55 has all the pertinent links and gives some idea of the method.

    I've done quite a bit of looking-in to this process and think that it'd be pretty easy to do actually. There are many promising ways to go about it, none more difficult than carbon transfer or toning a b&w print. Shoot me a pm if you're interested.

    You can see them in person at GEH.

  4. #144
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    In order of film complexity from lowest to highest:

    Kodachrome, E6 films, C41 films.

    In order of process complexity from lowest to highest:

    C41, E6, Kodachrome.

    Any hints in this to you all?

    BTW, all chemicals have been discontinued, all processing and film manufacture is discontinued. And yet... And yet, Steve has managed to make the process work. The complexity of Kodachrome is similar to the complexity of Polaroid instant products. And the situation in some regards is similar to TIP. And yet, there is no Azo paper, but I can make a work alike and Steve can reproduce (resurrect) the Kodachrome process from scratch.

    There is a lesson to be learned here for everyone.

    PE
    It's almost as if there is a fixed, finite and rather high level of complexity to any three color process, and different processes divide this complexity up differently between the emulsion and the processing!
    Last edited by Roger Cole; 05-01-2012 at 09:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Swellastic, I'm glad you brought up John G. Capstaff's Kodachrome; maybe the most affecting 2-color process to date.

    This post over at New55 has all the pertinent links and gives some idea of the method.

    I've done quite a bit of looking-in to this process and think that it'd be pretty easy to do actually. There are many promising ways to go about it, none more difficult than carbon transfer or toning a b&w print. Shoot me a pm if you're interested.

    You can see them in person at GEH.

    Oh, gosh giddy golly. Thanks a lot for these links. I haven´t read through all of it yet, but I will be a happy camper while I work myself through this new information.

    The thing that jumps out at me immediately is whether or not we know anything about the availability/composition of the dyes. Has there been any kind of publication on this? Is there some kind of patent that Kodak or someone else filed that might divulge some information?

    Pardon me for posting so soon without reading properly through all the information that has so graciously been provided to me. It's just that this really got my heart racing as this process really seems quite worthwhile to pursue. So pardon if I seem impatient. I am young and ignorant in many of these matters, and I tremble before giants.

  6. #146
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Swell, I'm encouraged by your enthusiasm! It's a very interesting story about the dyes, and no they have never been named. However, many dyes will have the same properties.

  7. #147
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    There are abundant patents and other information on the couplers and dyes for Kodachrome and the dyes for Polaroid and Kodak instant products. These are no secrets in either process sequence.

    Polaroid used Azo dyes coupled to hydroquinone to make dyes which would diffuse. Kodak used couplers which formed dyes which stayed in place after processing. I refer you to the patents rather than repost information here.

    PE

  8. #148
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    I don't want to throw a spanner in the works but has anyone here seen or used Ilfords colour transparency film which is 2iso, it is based on the same technology as Ilfochrome? if i were to attempt to make any colour film (WHICH I AM NOT) I would first strive to make this type of colour film. Just throwing it out there......
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  9. #149
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, the dyes I said are secret are Capstaff's 2-color Kodachrome. A new thread should be started to further that convo; back to the other Kodachrome...

    Stephen, Ilfochrome Micrographic Film, and here.

  10. #150
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    I have said before that a dye bleach material would be the easiest color material to recreate or to engineer in your darkroom.

    Due to the nature of dye bleach, it will be slow and grainy.

    PE



 

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