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  1. #231
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Please, I don't need any flattery! But thanks. I appreciate your comments.

    PE

  2. #232
    RPC
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    Since Kodachrome is, for all intents and purposes an obsolete item, and due to its cult-like popularity, why not start a forum on this site devoted just to Kodachrome? Everything Kodachrome could then be posted there, for those interested, sparing others the continually popping-up Kodachrome threads in this forum. If someone started one on this forum, it could just be moved there. Just a thought.

  3. #233
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    I think almost every segment of film has become cultist, so we'd have to do that for everyone. Good god, if we gave Kodachrome a forum, could you imagine the uproar from the Leica folks that they don't get their own?
    Last edited by Klainmeister; 11-08-2012 at 03:51 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    K.S. Klain

  4. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klainmeister View Post
    ...Good god, if we gave Kodachrome a forum, could you imagine the uproar from the Leica folks that they don't get there own?
    They have entire SITES. And control a number of others
    - Bill Lynch

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Roger, thank you. I'll shut up!

    K.S., Roger, in surveys, most people pick garish color over muted color as long as the color is accurate. And so a red can be a red, not an orange, but the customer inevitably selects bright red rather than red. If you look at a Munsell or CIE chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIELAB. You will find that people expect high saturation and brightness. See the enhanced color photo compared to the original on the CIE page.

    PE
    And I prefer the right side of the photograph in the Wiki article, or at least I do assuming that sky is accurate. I like the bright blue sky of the left side, but I've seen skies that appear that blue plenty of times. I don't like the garish neon green of the plants on the left. Plants just don't look like that, at least outside of cartoons. When I go visit family back in east TN I always marvel at the much more vibrant shades of green in the grass and trees (during times of year they are green of course) as opposed to here in Georgia, but even they are not THAT green.

    Isn't there an inherent conflict between saturation and color accuracy at some point, where to make the color more saturated it has to be more purely one wavelength, whereas the original was more mixed?

    In any event, when I started photogtraphy Kodachrome was known for its saturation, compared to the E4 and early E6 films, and especially compared to, ugh, Kodacolor II consumer C41. We used Vericolor II type S, later III, when we wanted saturated prints. I liked the more saturated look of Kodachrome then, but somehow the race was on and I thought it got kind of carried away later.

    OTOH, I did shoot a fair amount of Agfa Ultra 50 so I'm hardly one to talk. But that was for very specific subjects that worked with high saturation, like I agree Velvia does, not for general use (and talk about garish Caucasian skin tones, ugh! But it was great for bright cars, some sports in bright enough light etc.) I much prefer today's Ektar 100 though: not quite as saturated but very saturated, an extra stop of speed, much sharper, and decent flesh tones if people wander into those shots.

    I always liked Kodachrome but didn't shoot much of it because I could process E6 myself, and also because 64 is pretty slow never mind 25. When they came out with 200 I tried it but found it quite grainy. Besides, it was such an icon it would always be available and I could always shoot it later. Sigh. I did shoot quite a few rolls I could find in 2010. I had one left over I just didn't have time to shoot. I'm not even sure where it is now, not that it would be worth $250 to me to process.

  6. #236

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    Isn't there an inherent conflict between saturation and color accuracy at some point, where to make the color more saturated it has to be more purely one wavelength, whereas the original was more mixed?
    Roger, as one who works in colourimetrics in a hybridised workflow, I draw your attention to the following statement:

    "Additionally, many of the "colors" within Lab space fall outside the gamut of human vision, and are therefore purely imaginary; these "colors" cannot be reproduced in the physical world."

    The garish rendering of the image on the left is an oversimplification of the way LAB tweaks the gamut (saturation and brightness) to try and approximate human vision, but we do not see the view this way. The colour space is just awful for practical use and certainly should be avoided with films like Velvia, Provia, what remains of the Kodak emulsions and anything with high RGB values. I've noticed that LAB is routinely applied to photographs in Royal Auto, (e.g. AAA in other countries). The colourisation is terrible, a joke.

    Kodachrome was not a very saturated film to my eyes. The many hundreds of slides I have in archives could be described as bright and lively, but not saturated. If saturation was required, a polariser would be slapped on, an in many landscape images I have of the 80s and early 90s, that's what I did.

    That Wiki article, while informative and well researched, is bogged down in a welter of grand technical methodology and resource that in modern colourimetric work is totally unnecessary beyond basics because so much of the work is automated (it has to be; photographers and artists would never get any work done puddling around all this!). An example is the deep CIELAB-CIEXYZ conversions and the incredibly foggy CIELAB explanation.
    Last edited by Poisson Du Jour; 11-08-2012 at 04:34 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #237

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    Reports of (Colour) Kodachrome Home Processing Emerge from Sydney

    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    And practically all AF-finder film-cameras used the contrast detection (either in the active or passive version).
    Oh ok, I guess since all new digi cameras have it it's not a notable feature so that's why I've never heard of it. Thanks


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  8. #238

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    Reports of (Colour) Kodachrome Home Processing Emerge from Sydney

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Kodak worked on a t-Grain and an ISO 400 Kodachrome but none of this went to market. The photo magazines who got samples were "ho-hum" about it in the face of the new E6 films.

    PE
    Do you have some? That would be cool to have just for coolness purposes haha


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #239
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Do you have some? That would be cool to have just for coolness purposes haha


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You may have just made PE's head explode.


  10. #240

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    Reports of (Colour) Kodachrome Home Processing Emerge from Sydney

    To me, Kodachrome is almost like the beginning of me being a REAL photographer.

    I'd been shooting with my dads SLR for over 15 years and "professionally" for around 5, but I didn't feel like a real photographer, I had never shot film professionally Amd had been using digital ever since I went "pro" so when I heard about Kodachrome shutting down I realized this was my last chance. I had loved national geographic and Steve McCurry's work and still had NEVER shot on Kodachrome, only cheap Kodak gold or similar Walgreens type, since I was a kid, I simply brought it to the store, never developed anything myself, never took a class on it. Etc. I shot 3 test rolls of film on Kodachrome in October, got them back and they were ok, adjusted my shooting based on those 3 rolls and headed out and spent an entire month flying all over the country and never knowing how a single shot would come out till after I was done and at the lab in Kansas in the last day when I delivered my final batch. They had shipped my previous batches so I didn't see anything till I got home.

    Everything came out amazingly well, I felt so accomplished, confirmed my skill level as a professional and gave me a purpose as a photographer.

    It holds a special place in my heart, and I hope my future book about the adventure is well received (just finished recovering from the financial hit of the trip, and still scanning the film, it's a lot for me, i want it scanned perfectly and accurately, but I know my end result will be awesome.

    Anyway, we all have a Kodachrome story, that's what makes it powerful I think. For me it fulfilled a childhood dream, still wish now I could shoot more, on 120, and take better advantage of the one roll of ASA 25 I had (everything else was 64). And create more as I improve and learn, but I guess I'll have to settle for Velvia haha I also miss Ektachrome (the blue tinge one) as I love the odd color caste, but at some point you have to let go of expensive or hard to find film and "focus" on what is available and consistent...

    There was a point to this post, not sure if it made it through, but I guess it's that, we always miss the past, we forget the bad and only remember the good, so all the difficulties of K have left, and what's left are green grasses and red flowers and joy in our hearts for a time long since passed...

    (I think I should save part of this post for my book... Lol)


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



 

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