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  1. #1

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    CD-3 substituted with CD-4 (per Photographers' Formulary catalog)?

    I'm interested in some ECN-2 process at home. I noticed that Photographers' Formulary catalog (http://stores.photoformulary.com/ima...n1/Catalog.pdf, page 27), for CD-3, it says "use CD-4" instead. I remember I read past posts, including some from PE, that CD-3 and CD-4 are meant for different dye formation and cross using them will cause color shift.

    I know CD-3 is also available from Artcraft Chemicals. But from a practicality point of view for ECN-2 process and your experience, can CD-3 really be substituted with CD-4 without affecting the final dye color rendering and stability? If so, what would be a good weight conversion? Kodak publication calls 4g/L for CD-3.

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Athiril's Avatar
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    CD-4 cannot be substituted in place of CD-3 for dye stability on films designed for CD-3, the dyes produced are 'slightly' different, not the stable intended forms.

    Also you must run a formaldehyde/formalin stabilising bath with ECN-2, stabilisers are not built into the film like C-41.


    As far as colour rendering, different dyes formed, can never be identical. Other than that, you can still achieve quite good colour results (this isn't the same as simply running it through C-41 though).

    I put some 5201 50D through a split-bath CD-2 developer which came out very nice, along side with some ECP-2 print film (CD-2 native), as a baseline comparson (trying to get a daylight pictorial developer for ECP-2).

    4g/L CD-3 should be 2.24g/L CD-4 for equivalent development iirc.



    Also the ECN-2 kit developer, parts A, B are inexpensive, though you have to handle a 20L cubi container for part A, which can be annoying.

    Starter is also inexpensive in the U.S. as well iirc.
    Last edited by Athiril; 06-08-2012 at 08:44 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for your reply, Athiril. The film I will shoot with is 5219. I'm planning to do negative development at home, then scan negatives and order prints online or local store. For B&W, I do all the work by myself in the traditional wet darkroom at home.

    I asked if CD-3 can be substituted by CD-4 because I want to keep my base raw chemical stock to the minimum. I have neither at this time. Maybe I should stick to the official ECN-2 formula published by Kodak, minus anti-fogging agent.

    Anyone knows how good the CD-3 dry powder keeping property is? I'm also planning to store ECN-2 developer working solution (mixed with distilled water) in amber lab glass bottle, filled to rim. Not sure how long I can keep it fresh, maybe at least a couple of months? I did check the Kodak's ECN-2 kit, but the total volume it can make is way beyond what I can consume in a reasonable amount of time before the concentrate goes bad. Also shipping cost for the heavy liquid solution will make a deep dent on my budget.

  4. #4
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranquibra View Post
    Thanks for your reply, Athiril. The film I will shoot with is 5219. I'm planning to do negative development at home, then scan negatives and order prints online or local store. For B&W, I do all the work by myself in the traditional wet darkroom at home.

    I asked if CD-3 can be substituted by CD-4 because I want to keep my base raw chemical stock to the minimum. I have neither at this time. Maybe I should stick to the official ECN-2 formula published by Kodak, minus anti-fogging agent.

    Anyone knows how good the CD-3 dry powder keeping property is? I'm also planning to store ECN-2 developer working solution (mixed with distilled water) in amber lab glass bottle, filled to rim. Not sure how long I can keep it fresh, maybe at least a couple of months? I did check the Kodak's ECN-2 kit, but the total volume it can make is way beyond what I can consume in a reasonable amount of time before the concentrate goes bad. Also shipping cost for the heavy liquid solution will make a deep dent on my budget.
    You might want to consider adding a chelating agent to the ECN-2 recipe.

  5. #5

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    I will keep that in mind. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    5219 has a rem jet coating. You will want to get that off or it will make a mess of your chemistry.
    You need an alkaline bath of some sort. Lots of info searching here.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/1...ghlight=remjet
    Last edited by cinejerk; 06-09-2012 at 04:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    And, I have mentioned that CD3 vs CD4 thing to the Formulary. It has not changed. I'll have to mention it again.

    PE

  8. #8

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    PE, thanks for bringing attention to the Formulary. Hopefully they will make correction soon. I was always fascinated with chemistry when I was a little kid and did experiments at home. Of course, my mother could tell what I did by holes left on windows curtain from sulfuric acid.

    cinejerk, thanks for your reminding of the rem-jet. I plan to use washing soda+baking soda alternative as given by Kodak for pre-bath before development. I don't have water jets to blast the rem-jet away, so I will give 2 mins for pre-bath followed by vigorous washes instead until the water is clear.

    I'm still on the planning stage, and here is the general sequence I'm planning to use:

    [1] washing soda+baking soda based pre-wash - 2 mins @ 80F
    [2] repeated vigorous wash until water is clear @ 80-100F
    [3] cd-3 based developer - 3 mins @ 106F
    [4] citric acid based stop bath - 0.5 min @ 80-100F
    [5] wash - 0.5 min @ 80-100F
    [6] ferricyanide based bleach - 3 mins @ 100F
    [7] wash - 1 min @ 80-100F
    [8] two bath fix - 2x1 mins @ 100F
    [9] wash - 2 mins @ 80-100F
    [10] formaldehyde+jet dry final rinse - 10 secs @ 100F

  9. #9
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    You know that Kodak has posted the ECN process sequence and formulas on their web site.

    Those are the best to use.

    PE

  10. #10

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    Yes, Kodak's publication is definitely great! My plan is based on ECN-2 process on Kodak's web site with only minor adjustment, like on the stop bath and two bath fixer.

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