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  1. #11
    hrst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoJim View Post
    Ideally you use a Jobo processor (or similar) that provides a tempered bath and provides processing tubes. You put the paper in the tube in the dark, and process it on the rotary processor in the light (like you would film in a tank). blah blah
    No, IDEALLY you don't do that, but idiotically, yes.

    Ideal process does not involve playing with completely unnecessary extra gear with the only purpose of introducing chemistry loss, uncontrolled cross-contamination, dilution etc.

    Tasks regarding playing with drums quite much eat away any time saved in quicker process. If you absolutely need to boost up the speed, I would add a water bath for trays. You can also add more alkali to the developer for higher pH to work faster in room temperature.

    Or, if you WANT to play with extra equipment with some BENEFITS, not only drawbacks, you buy a roller transport processor or a slot processor. I'm still happy with trays at this point. Great way to start anyway.

    I would like to hear you elaborate on what this "greater amounts of fuss and hassle [without a Jobo]" you talk about is.

  2. #12
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    Done it both ways, agree with HST. Drums are a huge and un-necessary PITA. Must be rinsed and thoroughly dried between prints, or you WILL get spots on the next print. Time consuming hassle, and totally not needed.

  3. #13

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    Thanks for all the links, suggestions and ideas. I am ready to jump in the tray processing of RA-4 printing.
    I see a lot of controversy about this, but can I use a red safelight?

  4. #14
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    No you can't use a red safelight. Colour photographic paper is sensitive to red light. If you use trays, you need total darkness. (A poster above alleges you can develop in dim safelight but you'd need to do tests to see if you were getting any fogging.)

    As for hrst's comments, the tone of them has removed any motivation I had to reply to them.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  5. #15
    hrst's Avatar
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    You can use a SPECIAL COLOR safelight. It is very dim yellow with a specific sharp wavelength that coincides with the sensitivity gap between the green- and red-sensitive layers of the paper. I use standard yellow leds at very dim levels without problems, though, but you have to do careful testing especially in this case. The correct level of lighting is such that you cannot see anything right after turning off the room lights, but can see surprisingly well after your eyes adjusting for 5-10 minutes.

    I have no problems doing the process in complete darkness, too, but it's a nice little luxury thingie, and it helps when teaching people printing; it's nice they can see what I'm doing and what they are doing for the first time.

    As for hrst's comments, the tone of them has removed any motivation I had to reply to them.
    That's perfectly fine too ! It's best to save your motivation to the darkroom. (Sorry, I just like to say things straight without hidden feelings behind my words. I think that, in the end, it saves both time and hassle, just like tray processing does, even though on surface, you can argue otherwise.)
    Last edited by hrst; 06-26-2012 at 02:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #16
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    PE has posted about safelights. I forget the Kodak filter number since I have the Duka for now. Drums will reduce the time the paper is exposed, true. RA4 paper is very fast. For trays with a safelight of course keep paper face down. Total darkness isn't that bad - I did it for a while - but it is nice seeing what you are doing. Of course you must test, as with anything - you should test your BW too.

    I won't personally call drums names or criticize people using them. I know some fine color printers who do. But me personally I found them a PITA. YMMV.

  7. #17

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    Drums are super easy to use. For casual use you can simply gently roll the drum back and forth in
    the sink. You don't even need a motor base. I don't personally like the Jobo because it fills and drains too slow, and is otherwise unnecessarily complicated. A dirt cheap DevTech drum will work better. You do need reliable temp control, but a simple water bath or tempering both can provide that. I don't like trays because too much chem is required and you get more exposure to the fumes. But whatever. In many ways developing RA4 is even easier than black and white printing, provided you've got a decent control negative to balance your colorhead.

  8. #18
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    See? Drew was one person I had in mind.

    There is more exposure to fumes. This was more important with Ilfochrome. It's the rinsing and drying of the drums that I find so annoying. It's just much, much slower, or at least was for me, using drums. It made it take far longer to do color printing than black and white (well that and test prints to determine color balance but that doesn't change that much for a given film once you determine it) even though the process itself is as fast or faster.

  9. #19
    PhotoJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    That's perfectly fine too ! It's best to save your motivation to the darkroom. (Sorry, I just like to say things straight without hidden feelings behind my words. I think that, in the end, it saves both time and hassle, just like tray processing does, even though on surface, you can argue otherwise.)
    That's fine - and even desirable - except that there was no need to call my comments "idiotic", which is tantamount to calling me an idiot. It crossed a line.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  10. #20
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I agree with that Jim, and should have pointed out that I was only agreeing with him that I find drums a lot of trouble compared to trays, not with the way he said it. My apologies for not doing so.

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