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  1. #11

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    Ok, progress this evening:

    UK17 (40ASA) shot as 3ASA, first dev is Rodinal 1+25, 20 deg C, 11 min, 10 or so agitations every minute, and the B&W negative got much denser, with lots of contrast. Then washed, stopped and exposed for about a minute 5cm from a 40W bulb, both sides. Then spooled and souped in diluted RA-4 dev until what I considering to be "completition", i.e. it didn't darken more. I removed it when it was completely black, then washed thoroughly and bleached. Then fixed in fresh C41 fix (from Digibase C41 kit).

    The film is now much less dense, with saturated colours and distinguishable highlights, but no blacks, only greens instead of them. I guess either colour dev was insufficient, or exposure to light.

    I'll be probably able to post a scan tomorrow.

  2. #12
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    Nice. I suspect that you have insufficiently-powerful colour-developer then, or the pH is wrong. When doing E6, weak shadows are an indication that you should run the CD longer while colour shifts (usually blue/yellow but it depends on the film brand) can be adjusted by changing the pH of the CD mixture. If I were you, I'd try it in C41 or E6-CD for the colour dev stage.

    However, slides are known to colour-shift with age and I think it's at least partially due to degradation of the dye couplers. It's possible that some of the couplers in the film are so far gone at this point that you just won't get a real black.

    I'd love to see some scans.

  3. #13
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    adash, the color reversible process is a special process, with two developer, which can give you surprises with fresh film, let alone the film have about 20 years overdue. With a recommended process.
    Until November 1990 Orwo films were those that could be found on the market. When I not found color negative film, I buy Orwochrom UK 17 or 18 that I developed in negative color process (Orwo 5166 or 5188).
    The results were good.
    If you have TSS - chromogen substance, you will probably be able to develop your film like negative easily.
    Risk, for me, when using the negative process is much smaller.
    If you have not TSS, you can test the - CD 2, CD 3, CD 4 (chromogenic substances).
    If you need recipes Orwo (9165 or 5166/5188) I can send you.
    George

  4. #14

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    George, Polyglot, thanks for your support!
    When doing E6, weak shadows are an indication that you should run the CD longer while colour shifts (usually blue/yellow but it depends on the film brand) can be adjusted by changing the pH of the CD mixture. If I were you, I'd try it in C41 or E6-CD for the colour dev stage.
    That sounds like a good idea, but my next attempt will be to drive the diluted RA-4 dev to real completion. I mean at least 10 minutes instead of 2.
    If you have not TSS, you can test the - CD 2, CD 3, CD 4 (chromogenic substances).
    I don't have TSS, and I believe it is CD3 in the RA-4 chemistry.
    If you need recipes Orwo (9165 or 5166/5188) I can send you.
    Publish them online somewhere, it is knowledge that must not be lost. I think I have the same in a Russian book, among others of course.

    Please see the attached image. Do you believe that more contrast in the first dev would be beneficial, or should I really increase colour developer only? The source of the uneven colour cast is unknown, since I was agitating both developers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ximage_001_pos01.jpg  

  5. #15

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    Here is another one. Some "darkening" in CyberView X.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ximage_001_pos02.jpg  

  6. #16
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    adash, the color reversible process, as in fact all processes of photochemical processing, it is important that you get black and white. The remaining intermediate tones will come by itself.
    For this it is best to use a gray scale test.
    In reversible processes (b & w and color) first development is the most important.
    The images do not see any black (perforation film). Is down the black from my eye. Time or temperature change at the first developer until you get a good black.
    Chromogen developer dilution will lead to a decrease in the final image contrast.
    In your images I see a low contrast, so an increase in chromogen development time will make the image more contrast.
    Orwo films were made for cold processes (20-25 ° C).
    It is better and easier to do tests at room temperature, with prolonged time, especially in the two develators.
    It may be that your films are too old and can not get results from your expectations
    See that was posted on APUG about working in C 41at 20 ° C.
    Development time is ~ 10 minutes???
    My scanner not work and I can not put the processes and recipes from Orwo now.
    Again, I think you can get better results if processed film UT 18 or UK 17 like color negative process, using different chromogens revelators from C 41 or E 6.
    good luck
    George

  7. #17

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    Thanks, George,

    The images do not see any black (perforation film). Is down the black from my eye. Time or temperature change at the first developer until you get a good black.
    I didn't quite understand it. There were good blacks after the first developer. Should I add more development time to the first developer?

    In your images I see a low contrast, so an increase in chromogen development time will make the image more contrast.
    OK, I will try that.
    It is better and easier to do tests at room temperature, with prolonged time, especially in the two develators.
    I always develop at room temp, unless otherwise noted.
    See that was posted on APUG about working in C 41at 20 ° C.
    Development time is ~ 10 minutes???
    No, I am using C-41 diluted 1+10 and times get very long. Almost 2 hours for that, usually 1 hour.

    Only useable for cross-process slide film though, due to low contrast with normal negative film.


    Again, I think you can get better results if processed film UT 18 or UK 17 like color negative process, using different chromogens revelators from C 41 or E 6.
    No luck so far, but will try fresh developer next time.

    Thanks,
    Dimitar

  8. #18
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    Dimitar, sorry for my English.
    Now I understand that you develop Orwo slides in reveals procces - b&w - Rodina diluted 1+ 100 for 2 hours.
    Chromogen developer - RA-4 dilute 1 +10 and developed it for 10 minutes at room temperature.
    The C 41 diluted 1 +10 and development time 2 hours.
    Processing films emerged at high dilution and in particular, that the b&w (for the reversible color film) do not think is a good idea.
    I read much in a magazine an article translated from Russian showing that most importance in photochemical processing has the alkaline substance.
    Not developping substance as everyone would expect.

    I look at the black from perforation because there does not receive exposure film and the process will result in reversible color black.
    I found the post with C 41 developed at room temperature. Development time was 16 to 20 min. with undiluted developer.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/9...ature-c41.html
    The pictures look decent.
    George

  9. #19

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    Ok, next step, Rodinal 1+25 11min at 20deg C, RA-4 beyond completion. All rest is the same, except some more overexposure. Metered as 1.5ASA in the shadows.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image_001_pos03.jpg   image_001_pos04.jpg   image_001_posb01.jpg  

  10. #20
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    Dimitar, I would suggest you use before the b&w develator a prebath - sodium carbonate 20 g / l. Time = 3 min. at room temperature.
    Sodium carbonate or soda wash in our country is store to chemicals.
    After prebath wash the film about 3 to 5 min, for not increase the pH of the b&w developer.
    I hope that this will reduce the fog, that whites are cleaner.
    Another option is to use b&w developer (Rodina) concentrated (1+ 15) for 8-10 min at room temperature.
    George

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