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  1. #1

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    Buying Flexicolor C41 chems will drive you nuts

    Buying Kodak Flexicolor chemicals for C41 processing is just plain difficult. It's hard to figure out what you need in the first place because there are multiple flavors (LORR, SM, RA, and regular, it seems). No supplier stocks all of the CAT numbers, or even necessarily stocks compatible quantities of the various chemicals. Kodak keeps changing the concentrate volumes and CAT numbers. Some are in gallons, some in liters. Vendors sell different minimum or case quantities. The prices are all over the map.

    The sticky List of Color Chemicals and Where To Get Them at the top of this forum is not even especially accurate or very useful anymore for Flexicolor C41 chemicals.

    I have screen shots of my shopping cart at Adorama, Pakor, and PSFNY down below to illustrate the point. I went looking for Ed's list of chemicals from that sticky thread:

    # 444-0296 - KODAK FLEXICOLOR C41 FIXER AND REPLENISHER, 5 GALLONS, 4 PER CASE, KODAK#1693837 $6.66
    # 444-0364 - KODAK FLEXICOLOR C41 DEVELOPER REPLENISHER, 5 GALLONS, 1 PER CASE, KODAK#1919042 $23.10
    # 444-0375 - KODAK FLEXICOLOR C41 DEVELOPER STARTER, MAKES 17.75 GALLONS, 1 PER BOX, KODAK#1953009 $4.50
    # 444-0401 - KODAK FLEXICOLOR C41 BLEACH, 5 GALLONS, 1 PER BOX, KODAK#1987924 $77.21
    # 444-1044 - KODAK FLEXICOLOR C41 FINAL RINSE AND REPLENISHER, 75 GALLONS, 2 PER CASE, KODAK#8486268 $34.00

    Note in the above list, the 444-nnnn numbers are Pakor numbers. The Kodak CAT numbers are at the end next to the prices. Those prices are from 7/25/2011, and in several cases they are considerably higher today. Much of the price difference appears to be due to the replacement of the one part bleach with the two part Bleach III.

    I tried to match up the list above as best I could at Pakor, PSFNY, and Adorama. It's impossible to match it up completely. PSFNY does not sell the 5 gallon developer / replenisher CAT 1919042. Instead, they sell CAT 1532753, which is 5x5 gallons. Neither Adorama nor Pakor sell the 5x5. They only sell the 1x5 gallon. So to make it somewhat comparable, I added 5 of the 1919042 to my cart for Adorama and Pakor.

    At PSFNY and Pakor, you can buy everything you need for process C-41, although the costs are wildly different. At Adorama, you can't, because they don't sell all of the chemicals. I find it rather bizarre that Adorama sells part A of the bleach, but not part B.

    A huge difference you'll notice in the prices below between PSFNY and Pakor is the because of the Final Rinse and Replenisher. At Pakor, 12x12.5 gallon is $12.01. At PSFNY the exact same thing is $161.41. How weird is that?

    Now none of these have shipping calculated. I know from experience that Pakor will be outrageous, and they can't even tell you exactly what it will cost if you call them on the phone. You won't know until it is shipped. For what I have listed for Adorama, it'll be $103 shipping. PSFNY will be $144 shipping, but that is a considerably greater amount of product than from Adorama. Even with Pakor's typically high shipping cost, I very much doubt they could be more expensive than PSFNY, mainly because of the price difference for the final rinse.

    To get the best prices, I'll have to split my order between PSFNY and Pakor (that $12.01 for 12x12.5 gallons of final rinse is a steal).

    I wish I could just buy this stuff in a conveniently packaged 5 gallon kit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pakor-20120811.png   PFSNY-20120813.png   Adorama-20120812.png  

  2. #2

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    That's the exact reason I went with B+H and got the Tetenal C-41 Press kit ( powder) for 19.95 1-Lit kit.

    If I lived in N.Y. I could get everthing from their store.


    Richard

  3. #3
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Don't know if it's still available but this kit is all you need, http://204.8.121.79/techbullfilmpac401.asp Developer, bleach, fix, and replenisher.

    It does show on Pakor's web site. http://www.pakor.com/Products/TRELUX...5_444-2648.cfm

    And Nova Graphics web site http://novagraphics.net/product_info...oducts_id=3169

    Even if it had to be special ordered with their next stock order (been a while since I bought my last kit and I think Pakor had to order it for me then) it makes it simple and the kit is great.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Don't know if it's still available but this kit is all you need, http://204.8.121.79/techbullfilmpac401.asp Developer, bleach, fix, and replenisher.

    It does show on Pakor's web site. http://www.pakor.com/Products/TRELUX...5_444-2648.cfm

    And Nova Graphics web site http://novagraphics.net/product_info...oducts_id=3169

    Even if it had to be special ordered with their next stock order (been a while since I bought my last kit and I think Pakor had to order it for me then) it makes it simple and the kit is great.

    Thanks! Does anyone have experience buying the Trelux FilmPAC Kit either from Pakor's or Nova Graphics?

    475 rolls of 135 for $60 something is very ideal to me and looks like I got to purchase this Trelux kit before I go insane.
    Last edited by rustyair; 08-12-2012 at 10:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #5

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    Skip, thanks for the update. I buy from adorama when possible, as they often don't charge hazmat, when pakor almost always does. That 5 gal bleach kit contains both part A and B. I think it is the smallest size of both parts, available together. It is almost infintely recyclable, using bleach regenerator. I would go with the 1x5 gal developer, not 5x5 gal. It will take a while to use all that and dev is the one thing that has a shelf life, even unmixed.

    Pakors price on the rinse is probably per each, so multiply x 12 for the per case price. They might ship partial, but not sure...they may only ship full cases. You can make your own final rinse with photoflow, it is essentially the same thing.

    Don't give up, it is worth the effort!

    Ed

  6. #6

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    Mark, that is a very interesting option! I was aware of Trebla, but I didn't know they offered a convenient pre-packaged kit. I really want to use Kodak Flexicolor chemicals, but Kodak makes it so darn difficult to figure out what you need to order, and then the way its supplied through the distribution network makes it too much of an adventure. If you figure out what you need in Kodak chemicals, it'll be good for one time only. By the time you use it all up and go to buy more, Kodak will have changed their CAT numbers or packaged volumes and you'll have to figure it all out again.

    The ease and low cost of buying the Trebla FilmPac is hard to resist. I'm likely to go that route. I can't understand why Kodak doesn't do the same. If there is a market for the Trebla FilmPac, then that market exists for Kodak too, yet they ignore it.

    Is there a difference between C41 and C41RA?

    From reading about the FilmPac at the http://204.8.121.79/techbullfilmpac401.asp site, I gather that all of these included items in the quantities supplied are intended to be sufficient to process 475 rolls of film in a replenished system.

    1 x 10 Liters of TL-50 Developer
    1 x 2.4 Liters of C-41RA Bleach
    3 x 5 Liters of C-41RA Fixer
    2 x 10 Liters of ELF Stabilizer

    I'm guessing most people will use the chemicals one-shot rather than in continuous repenished operation. Does Trebla provide any mixing instructions for one-shot use?

    One last thing --- reverse DNS on 204.8.121.79 doesn't return anything. Who exactly are you buying from at that IP address, and is it trustworthy? Do they ship for reasonable prices?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdSawyer View Post
    Skip, thanks for the update. I buy from adorama when possible, as they often don't charge hazmat, when pakor almost always does. That 5 gal bleach kit contains both part A and B. I think it is the smallest size of both parts, available together. It is almost infintely recyclable, using bleach regenerator. I would go with the 1x5 gal developer, not 5x5 gal. It will take a while to use all that and dev is the one thing that has a shelf life, even unmixed.

    Pakors price on the rinse is probably per each, so multiply x 12 for the per case price. They might ship partial, but not sure...they may only ship full cases. You can make your own final rinse with photoflow, it is essentially the same thing.

    Don't give up, it is worth the effort!

    Ed
    Ed, thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure I'll eventually figure it out, but one has to have masochistic tendencies to want to deal with the confusion and difficulty of ordering Kodak chemicals.

    I figured that what Pakor is listing as $12.01 for a case of 12 is probably really per each. $144 is more in line with PSFNY's $161 for the same item. Just another hurdle in the quest for Flexicolor chemicals.

    Adorama doesn't have a 5 gallon bleach listed on their site anymore Ed. What they have listed now is Kodak C-41 Flexicolor Bleach III Replenisher, 12.5-Gallons, Part A. The CAT number is 8184038, which matches up with what I see on Pakor and PSFNY. It's 12.5 gallons, not 5 gallons, so I don't think it's the same as what you are referring to. And it is weird to offer part A only without part B.

    My shipping price from Adorama to Texas is $103 for what I have listed there. It would be $81 if I bought just one case of developer CAT 1919042, which is what I'd actually do. That is still pretty hefty. Notice that I don't have a final rinse in my cart for Adorama. They only package it in very small sizes that, when compared to buying a case from Pakor or PSFNY, is many times the cost.

    It's aggravating that you can't get everything from one place without either having to buy five times what you need, or being charged outrageous hazmat shipping charges that can't even be quoted to you on the phone.

  8. #8
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyair View Post
    Thanks! Does anyone have experience buying the Trelux FilmPAC Kit either from Pakor's or Nova Graphics?

    475 rolls of 135 for $60 something is very ideal to me and looks like I got to purchase this Trelux kit before I go insane.
    Just FYI the 475 roll figure is for 24-shot rolls and in continuously replenished system.

    This kit is much more economic especially if you shoot a lot and process very regularly you could get up somewhere close to the capacity of the kit, but you probably will get considerably less.

    With my first kit I got about 70-80 as I remember, that included all my mistakes in learning the system.

    Second kit was well over 100.

    Now I could probably get about 200-250 if I shot that many rolls in a year.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #9
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    I am hoping they still do the kit.

    Well worth asking those suppliers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    Mark, that is a very interesting option! I was aware of Trebla, but I didn't know they offered a convenient pre-packaged kit. I really want to use Kodak Flexicolor chemicals, but Kodak makes it so darn difficult to figure out what you need to order, and then the way its supplied through the distribution network makes it too much of an adventure. If you figure out what you need in Kodak chemicals, it'll be good for one time only. By the time you use it all up and go to buy more, Kodak will have changed their CAT numbers or packaged volumes and you'll have to figure it all out again.

    The ease and low cost of buying the Trebla FilmPac is hard to resist. I'm likely to go that route. I can't understand why Kodak doesn't do the same. If there is a market for the Trebla FilmPac, then that market exists for Kodak too, yet they ignore it.

    Is there a difference between C41 and C41RA?

    From reading about the FilmPac at the http://204.8.121.79/techbullfilmpac401.asp site, I gather that all of these included items in the quantities supplied are intended to be sufficient to process 475 rolls of film in a replenished system.

    1 x 10 Liters of TL-50 Developer
    1 x 2.4 Liters of C-41RA Bleach
    3 x 5 Liters of C-41RA Fixer
    2 x 10 Liters of ELF Stabilizer

    I'm guessing most people will use the chemicals one-shot rather than in continuous repenished operation. Does Trebla provide any mixing instructions for one-shot use?

    One last thing --- reverse DNS on 204.8.121.79 doesn't return anything. Who exactly are you buying from at that IP address, and is it trustworthy? Do they ship for reasonable prices?
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #10
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    Fun, isn't it?
    I went to Calumet a couple years ago to get the necessary sm 41 stuff as I hadn't processed c41 before and after reading all the threads on it, was more confused than when I started. They didn't know what to sell me. I walked out with most of what I needed but as others have said, they didn't have it all. Now i use the rollei kits from freestyle.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

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