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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    It's nothing like Velvia 50, which has around 4 and a half stops - normal contrast - and more naturalistic & rich colour. I have a few shots in my APUG gallery which weren't scanned, but photographed on a light box with a DSLR. Even with this idiosyncratic workflow, I haven't had any problems processing Ektar negs for reference purposes and uploading to the web. Every problem with this film, without exception, seems to come down to people's laziness with processing. You HAVE to do some colour correction, but this is the creative side of colour work. If you want instant, lifeless results for Flickr, shoot digital. You don't need a drum scanner to see that this film, like all others, is indeed made up of grain and relatively neutral colour. Nothing has been revealed to me with the 3,000,000 DPI scan in the OP, other than this person's disposition relating to photography. If you're promoting a cheap drum scanning service however, sign me up!

    That it isn't as 'malleable' as other colour films (at least where scanning is concerned) does appear to represent certain emulsion compromises, but all this 'Ektar is shite' hysteria online seems just an excuse to whine about the demise of film. Live with it or shoot digital. It's a unique film best suited to creative photographers, not number crunching.
    Agreed, Ektar is a fantastic film that is not an "Automatic" but a "Stick"....you have to drive it to get anywhere...:-)
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  2. #22

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    I print ektar in multiple formats and sizes in the darkroom, and it's great - my favorite color film by far.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard_61 View Post
    The original shot is quite soft; taken by hand etc...
    The scan extracted every detail in the neg.
    Scanning is a complex process made simple, this appears often to work better then it really does. One area that is difficult with DPI values, is that you really need to know the bit depth as well. For example if the maximum resolution of a film is represented by 4800DPI, then scanning at 9000DPI will not improve things, but increasing the bit depth from 16bits to 32bits, but keeping the resolution the same 4800DPI may actually look better.

    Now, there is another issue, the scanner itself, there are plenty of flat bed 1200DPIx16bit scanners out there that will scan at 4800DPIx32bits, they don't actually do this, they scan at 1200DPIx16bits, then use extrapolating software to get the resolution you asked for and do some bit shifting to get 32bit values. I don't know enough about the mechanics of drum scanners to know how much of this they do.

    Really though, there is no perfect scan, there is a perfect scan for what you want to do with the image. I never start with a scan, I start with the negative, then set the scanner to get as close to what I want as I can get, resolution is part of that. Scanning should be considered the first step of the printing process, not the last step of negative processing.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Scanning is a complex process made simple, this appears often to work better then it really does. One area that is difficult with DPI values, is that you really need to know the bit depth as well. For example if the maximum resolution of a film is represented by 4800DPI, then scanning at 9000DPI will not improve things, but increasing the bit depth from 16bits to 32bits, but keeping the resolution the same 4800DPI may actually look better.

    Now, there is another issue, the scanner itself, there are plenty of flat bed 1200DPIx16bit scanners out there that will scan at 4800DPIx32bits, they don't actually do this, they scan at 1200DPIx16bits, then use extrapolating software to get the resolution you asked for and do some bit shifting to get 32bit values. I don't know enough about the mechanics of drum scanners to know how much of this they do.

    Really though, there is no perfect scan, there is a perfect scan for what you want to do with the image. I never start with a scan, I start with the negative, then set the scanner to get as close to what I want as I can get, resolution is part of that. Scanning should be considered the first step of the printing process, not the last step of negative processing.
    what's any of this got to do with apug?
    the op posts his drum scans on various forums with no apparent reason other than showing off the fact that he owns one and does scanning for clients (some who sell their boring beach photographs for $$$$). I own two drum scanners. Big phuckin' deal.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    what's any of this got to do with apug?
    the op posts his drum scans on various forums with no apparent reason other than showing off the fact that he owns one and does scanning for clients (some who sell their boring beach photographs for $$$$). I own two drum scanners. Big phuckin' deal.
    I see somebody is having a really nice day
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    I see somebody is having a really nice day
    Actually, I'm having a great day. that rant was during breakfast at 6:15. Since then I've shot several sheets of film of the fall colors, dismantled my wives vw to change the spark plugs/wires, and taken a nap.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  7. #27
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    Your "wives VW"? How many wives do you have, and do all of them drive VWs?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    I see somebody is having a really nice day
    Wogster, people who do not want to learn anything about film scanning only get half of the fun from shooting films. Some of them got pissed when they read posts that talk about scanning films on APUG. I used to process my films and print them in my home darkroom for more than a decade. I got so tired of it because of its inefficiency in producing good prints. It always took so much time. I eventually moved on to other activities and had my photography hobby canned. I nearly abandoned the hobby until I saw a demo of a Minolta Dimage MF film scanner about 10 years ago. It jumped started my film photography again and I have since invested thousands in MF gears and films. I have shot far more films than all the films I shot before getting into scanning.

    Film scanning is another half of the fun of shooting films. Some will say processing and darkroom is the other half but that's the old way. The new and far more productive way is to process the films then scan them. Unfortunately film scanners are expensive. That is a road block to many who are lurking outside. I took the plunge for one ($1900 in 2002) and never regret it a bit. There is so much to learn technically about scanning even today I still discover new techniques every time I use my scanner.

    Film scanning is an extension of shooting films. Before the films are scanned it is only half way through. People on APUG need to realize film scanning is a 2nd half of shooting films. It is not the only way but it is a modern and better way in my opinion. The resulted images have the look of films that are very different from images produced by digital cameras. I picked up my 35 mm gears recently and shot a few rolls of Ektar 100 and Potra VC 160. After I scanned the films I found I like them better than digital camera images still. They have the analog look believe me.

    I wish film scanners were still produced at lower prices and decent quality. It would be one way to keep the film industry alive in my opinion.

  9. #29

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    It's interesting that scanning is putting people off colour film. Colour neg is a lost cause for the amateur - breaking news! I think all these endless scanning problem threads are just a battling with a reality they can't face. Once they realise that the relatively small expense of their pro medium format camera is met by the astronomical cost of scanners that get results, they lose interest. If they have sense. Remember, a good deal of people only convert to film because of the illusion of professionalism it brings - which they can't afford in the digital capture market. If they aren't interested in the black and white darkroom, they can only turn back, as it were, to digital and face the fact they aren't professionals after all. In one sense it's a shame that colour neg is no longer accessible to these people - we all deserve the best - but in another, emphasises the true quality of film - a professional product once again? Isn't this what every traditional photographer wants? To have their good judgement in choice of media (and excellent results) validated? But what happens when we can't afford it anymore, do we carry on seeking validation? Anyone with foresight, common sense and a respect for their money is shooting black and white film, which is a realistic choice for everyone - much easier to be economical. Everyone else, unless they're a pro or fine art photographer from an affluent background, is spending a lot of cash simply to make themselves look good. I shoot colour occasionally for the novelty and it's like Christmas every time. Looking at a Velvia 50 tranny now, regardless of content, is like looking at a rare diamond that I can't chip out of the wall. It is sad, but this drum scanning realisation that everyone is coming to - as a direct result of the Ektar difficulties - proves it's true.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    Actually, I'm having a great day. that rant was during breakfast at 6:15. Since then I've shot several sheets of film of the fall colors, dismantled my wives vw to change the spark plugs/wires, and taken a nap.
    Okay, I guess it was before you had that first coffee of the day....
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

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