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Thread: E-6 2 stop push

  1. #1

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    E-6 2 stop push

    Hello guys... I am busy moving house and most of my darkroom stuff has been packed away. I am moving due to a problematic housemate and her boyfriend, and my other 2 housemates are leaving as well. Nearly all my darkroom kit (apart from a developing tank, a bottle of rodinal, a nearly used bottle of fixer and 1 D76 packet, and my E-6 working solutions, my remaining 4L worth of concentrate is boxed up. I am moving middle of next month. I have absolutely no money to spare! Me and my other 2 housemates want to capture some good night footage on super-8 and some good grainy shots on 3200TMAX and 1 normal film roll. I will be mailing them prints after my move.

    The super 8 is where i am having a problem. my current E6 working solutions have only been used once, they are still perfectly good in their airtight bottles. I plan to shoot the super-8 at 400ASA (Kodak ektachrome 100D) and am wondering how would a 2-stop push look? My 18th movie was pushed 1 stop and gave me really nice results. As I understand it, a 2-stop push is an 80% increase in FD time. Now, would it be even worth pushing 2 stops, or would I be wasting a good film? The shots will be at dusk. The shutter angle of the camera is 180 degrees I approximate the speed at around 1/36 at 18fps ( i could do with an XL camera here with a wider angle shutter. I have not shot the film yet, we plan to go out this evening/tonight. I dont think pushing 3 stops would even give me anything worth using if I were to shoot the film at 800ASA, but If I could it would mean I could shoot later into the night, as on Halloween.

    +1 Push gives nice colour and contrast isn't unbearable.

    What would a +2 push give me? Also for Halloween, what would a +3 push give me? Would this be a 120% increase in FD time and even worth doing? (120% is only a guess, I can find no recourses on FD time for a +3 stop push. I regret there not being any high-speed reversal options available to me in colour. In Halloween if a +3 is a complete waste of time I will be shooting Black and white 4-X film that I have on hand, box speed of it is 400ASA, frozen from day 1.

    I can find very few examples using a search engine, for ektachrome 100D. Tonights footage will be sentimental so I don't want to blow it.

    I hope I am not pushing this film too far beyond its design limit of 100ASA, as it is designed to be a slow speed. For future night shooting I plan to shoot kodak vision 500T and have andec lab make a projection print from the negative. I do prefer to do everything myself as it feels good to have done the whole process myself, but printing negative S8 stock is beyond what can be done at home without extreme difficulty and precise equipment, without going digital which I want to avoid at all costs, this is why I do not want to use negative stock, also we want to project it before we part ways,(turnaround time is too large) and i have zero money atm, until im settled. We do want to also shoot one on Halloween, hence wanting a 3-stop push, as it will be under orange streetlight and pumpkin candles etc etc. This evenings will be a 2-stop push.

    Jacob

  2. #2
    Hatchetman's Avatar
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    I have had pretty good luck with E100VS pushed two stops. The eclipse photo in my gallery is an example. Certainly adds some contrast.

  3. #3
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
    I have had pretty good luck with E100VS pushed two stops. The eclipse photo in my gallery is an example. Certainly adds some contrast.
    Have done a +4 on Provia 400X, you're only supposed to increase FD time, but I also increased second bath (wash time), the bath responsible for lifting up shadows, this lowers contrast back down from being excessive, and it works well, though needs to be carefully balanced so your dMax isn't too thin from that combination of +4 and more time in 2nd bath.

    This is what I use (with timings for 1/3rd stops)

    6 minutes for N
    9 minutes for +1
    12min 20s for +2
    15min 26s for +3
    18 minutes for +4

    I think its too late to fiddle with these, esp increasing 2nd bath time when planning on projecting.. you need to try a still test roll first.

  4. #4

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    E-6 2 stop push

    Athiril,

    Strange, I had severe color loss when I went 2 stops, I developed two fujichromes, one astia at normal time of a sunset and lake, Amd got normal color, with a little burst which was nice, and then a 2 stop provia, which came out with very muted tones... Like an early color image, very earthy tones. I shot and developed them same day, and then developed two other E-6 (ektachrome) after that in the same developer and it was only the 2stop pushed roll that came out with color loss... Does pushing it cause a need for a longer time in the color developer?


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  5. #5
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Athiril,

    Strange, I had severe color loss when I went 2 stops, I developed two fujichromes, one astia at normal time of a sunset and lake, Amd got normal color, with a little burst which was nice, and then a 2 stop provia, which came out with very muted tones... Like an early color image, very earthy tones. I shot and developed them same day, and then developed two other E-6 (ektachrome) after that in the same developer and it was only the 2stop pushed roll that came out with color loss... Does pushing it cause a need for a longer time in the color developer?


    ~Stone

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    When I did the +4, I increased the 2nd bath time (first wash) to lower the contrast (by raising shadow values and shifting gamma) to counteract the excessive contrast you normally get. You don't need to (and technically not 'supposed' to) change anything except first developer times for pushing and pulling.

    I haven't done much with +2 stop pushing E-6 or in general really, but have done someone's EBX @ +1 which gave a slight magentay/purpley bias to the colour over regular EBX.

  6. #6

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    I shot a tester. Colours were washed out and contrast was too high at +2 no visible colour cast though. How did you push to +4?! unless your film pushes well, 100D DOES NOT push well as shown by this For halloween I did a swap, a roll 100D swapped for some kodak vision3 500T, widescreen centre have said they can make prints from super 8 neg to super 8 positive. I do like to do stuff at home, but this is not possible! I cannot send it off for processing and printing until I am moved, but that is not a problem now, it is the only way! The lack of high speed reversal options is a bummer!

    Jacob
    Last edited by jm94; 10-27-2012 at 11:13 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Jacob, I understand that your money supply is tight at the moment, but I still advise you to give Fuji Provia 400X a shot (or 36). It is ISO 400 and can be pushed to ISO 1600 without problems. It is the only slide film I would recommend for evenings or night scenes.

    Note that candle lighting looks very romantic to the human eye (which does a lot of in-brain color temp correction) but rarely looks good on slide film as is. I highly recommend you use fill flash to both tame the contrast (night scenes are generally very high in contrast) and to get somewhat normal colors.

    Use the flash at -1 or -2 stop flash exposure compensation and make sure the non-flash exposure is correct to get good mood. With ISO1600 you should still have plenty of background in your image.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

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    I don't think I mentioned, this was for super-8, I plan to shoot negative vision 500T for Halloween, and having a positive projection print made from it, I did a swap 1 reversal sold and bought a negative 500T super 8 film and will have it processed and printed next month.

    Jacob

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    Mike Wilde's Avatar
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    I seem to recall that a 2 stop push needs a dilute CD as well as extending the FD time. I have never tried it myself. This note was from an old Kodak Dataguide.
    my real name, imagine that.

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    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    Jacob, I understand that your money supply is tight at the moment, but I still advise you to give Fuji Provia 400X a shot (or 36). It is ISO 400 and can be pushed to ISO 1600 without problems. It is the only slide film I would recommend for evenings or night scenes.

    Note that candle lighting looks very romantic to the human eye (which does a lot of in-brain color temp correction) but rarely looks good on slide film as is. I highly recommend you use fill flash to both tame the contrast (night scenes are generally very high in contrast) and to get somewhat normal colors.

    Use the flash at -1 or -2 stop flash exposure compensation and make sure the non-flash exposure is correct to get good mood. With ISO1600 you should still have plenty of background in your image.
    +4 was Provia 400X. Extending the first wash time (which continues development in lower values, but the solvent is too weak to continue to raise the white clipping level) lowers contrast back down.

    He can't use fill flash on motion picture.. he'd need a continuous lighting setup which would be annoying, esp at night.

    For future reference, I would try running the first wash longer than 2 minutes in a stills test roll if you can get some (100D being E100VS iirc, or better yet, a fresh 400ft ro0ll of 100D in 35mm and bulk roll that into stills for testing), I might make a test of that in the future for pushing and post the results if I get time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wilde View Post
    I seem to recall that a 2 stop push needs a dilute CD as well as extending the FD time. I have never tried it myself. This note was from an old Kodak Dataguide.
    That'd likely to counteract colour shift. By shifting it the other way.

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