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  1. #351
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    I don't want to open a can of worms in what I'm next about to say but the fact is this....if anyone has a shot at processing Kodachrome again on a commercial scale they are going to need a processor. Without a finely tuned highly calibrated (precise and automated) Kodachrome processing machine
    it will never be done commercially. Weather this be a K-14 processor like the K-lab or something custom built by proper engineers.

    The only way I foresee it being done without the physical infrastructure to commercially process it will be in small tank lines by hand for historical demonstration purposes only and this would occur at extremely high cost.

    I doubt George Eastman House or The National Archives/Library of congress have the physical machines to accommodate this and of the three k-14 processors I've heard mentioned in the world none of them are in a working condition.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  2. #352
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Since Kodachrome is no longer produced, and since Kodak is unlikely to ever start another production run for it, we need to focus on a process that involves plenty of manual labour and little upfront capital investment. The target group of this process will not be Joe Schmoe holiday shootist but someone who really really wants his/her rolls processed, even if this means less than ideal colors, risk of losing a few rolls and high cost of processing. If I look at Mr. Shuttlelaunch with his three launches, it sounds like one shuttle launch will be processed b&w (this is farly low risk, so he has one launch for sure), one launch will go to whoever goes through the process, and one launch will go to him, hopefully with proper colors.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  3. #353
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Neither GEH nor any other existing facility have the space, staff or equipment to process Kodachrome. As Steve says above, everything is "kaput". No one (AFAIK) except Steve and myself know first hand the complexity of mixing and processing Kodachrome by hand. And machine processing is not much easier.

    If an individual wants something badly enough, they will find a way. That is what should happen here. However, I see no sign of that happening. As I said, just talk. I'm not going to do it, I know that because I know how hard it would be. No one could pay me enough to do it. Sorry.

    PE

  4. #354
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    If an individual wants something badly enough, they will find a way.
    Agreed. Like all things in this vein, someone who really wants to will figure it out, just like Steve did. And accordingly, he seems to have said BTDT, and no thanks, once was enough.

    Somewhere, once, I saw a listing of the chemicals someone (Steve, I believe) used. I may have even saved a copy. And, I have also read the patent. You don't just go out and buy this stuff off the shelf, so obviously you have to "manufacture" it yourself to obtain small quantities. Maybe that is what Steve did, IDK. Nowhere have I seen it said where he got his chemistry. Gathering and making the necessary chemicals, couplers for example, is one thing that doesn't seem to be getting it's due in this discussion.

    To be clear, I have no intention of trying process K-14, so the question I have is just general curiosity but, where, oh where, does one even start looking for how to make up the necessary chemistry? Google-ing "making color couplers in your basement" doesn't get you vary far! PE, any suggestions? How the heck do you make a color coupler? It sounds complicated. I suppose if you are a real chemist it might be obvious how it is done, and maybe it isn't even hard, but to most of us laymen it is about as clear as mud.

    I've got a feeling that once folks get the gist of the process involved to make up the chemistry, many might be "cured" of this fascination with hand processing Kodachrome!

    Seriously, though, best of luck to anyone who wants to try!

    -- Jason
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  5. #355

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    If someone did conjure up a way to process Kodachrome without using an original machine, original chemicals and original process timing and quality controls, would the substitute result really be "Kodachrome"?

    It really would be a miracle if the image quality, color pallette and archival qualities equalled correctly-factory-processed fresh K-14 film.

    Which begs the question whether any substitute process would be anymore a "Kodachrome original" than recovering important Kodachrome images by processing as B&W?

  6. #356
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Jason, the Kodachrome couplers were custom made for Kodak for the K14 process. The simplest cyan coupler is 4-Chloro-1-Napthol which I am sure is sold by Aldrich. It is by no means a Kodachrome coupler, but it forms a credible cyan dye. Some of the couplers are sold commercially and I think that someone has posted a source.

    If you want more, I can start drawing structures, but I don't think it will help anyone but another Organic Chemist.

    PE

  7. #357
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    If you want more, I can start drawing structures, but I don't think it will help anyone but another Organic Chemist.
    My point exactly!

    I am not an organic chemist* and do not play one on TV.

    Anyway, it might be interesting to get a bit of this coupler just to try as an experiment some day. Thanks for the info.


    * or any other kind of chemist. There are days I'd like to change that. (Of course, there are many days that "would you like fries with that" sounds like a good line of work, too.)
    Last edited by kb3lms; 08-26-2013 at 02:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  8. #358

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    The only reason I suggested the George Eastman House and possibly the National Archives/Library of Congress would be to help the poor fellow who has the shuttle launches on Kodachrome. I was not suggesting they could or even should/would do it on a commercial scale. My expertise is Gardening/Psychology, NOT organic chemistry. I don't own any Kodachrome, as I stated earlier, when that date got close, I gave away my rolls to someone else who claimed they would use it up in time.

    Right now, I am shooting E-6 and sending it off for processing VIA Walmart ($6.88 USD/roll). My film of choice is Ektachrome that I am purchasing from a person on Ebay that specializes in selling old stocks. I have yet to run across a bad roll, she has been very good about selling good film rolls.

    It's also possible he could talk to a chemistry graduate student at a local university. Just an idea.

  9. #359
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    GEH would not and could not do it even on a one-time basis! They are oriented in an entirely different direction than this.

    And for those wishing to work with the Chloro Napthol, take precautions as this can be a nasty chemical in clumsy or let us say "inexperienced" hands.......

    PE

  10. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by madgardener View Post
    The only reason I suggested the George Eastman House and possibly the National Archives/Library of Congress would be to help the poor fellow who has the shuttle launches on Kodachrome. I was not suggesting they could or even should/would do it on a commercial scale. My expertise is Gardening/Psychology, NOT organic chemistry. I don't own any Kodachrome, as I stated earlier, when that date got close, I gave away my rolls to someone else who claimed they would use it up in time.

    Right now, I am shooting E-6 and sending it off for processing VIA Walmart ($6.88 USD/roll). My film of choice is Ektachrome that I am purchasing from a person on Ebay that specializes in selling old stocks. I have yet to run across a bad roll, she has been very good about selling good film rolls.

    It's also possible he could talk to a chemistry graduate student at a local university. Just an idea.
    Probably the same seller i have been buying it from!
    My stock is shooting perfectly too been frozen for 7 years, unfortunately buying dead films is not going to keep E6 alive, ive got about 30 rolls in my freezer, i may buy another 20 from that seller.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    it will never be done commercially. Weather this be a K-14 processor like the K-lab or something custom built by proper engineers.
    I think Kelvin's K-Lab, (with whatever he has done with it) is the only hope left of processing kodachrome on a larger scale.
    Dont know where any of the other remaining K-Labs are, but there may be others that come out of the woodwork.
    Im not sure how easy it would be either to modify to run 16mm film through the machine. This would likely require different film sprockets, as far as im aware, the K-Labs only ran 35mm film through them.

    I take it that the shuttle film was shot on 16mm?
    If it was on 35mm, then that will make things much easier in a K-lab scenario anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    If you want more, I can start drawing structures, but I don't think it will help anyone but another Organic Chemist.

    PE
    Ill be keen to see them, id add them to the Kodachrome Wiki if nothing else.
    Who knows if any Organic Chemist reads this thread, but may be some use in the future if anyone goes down the track of K-14 processing.
    May be useful to find the correct couplers for a K-lab machine, since the other simpler ones you mentioned may require different processing times for a K-lab.
    Last edited by Nzoomed; 08-26-2013 at 04:15 PM. Click to view previous post history.



 

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