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  1. #411

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    I told her about the book. She seemed interested. She told me she might try to turn this project into her Dissertation project. Since she is a student at the local State U, she has access to all kinds of chemicals and processes, and I don't doubt she could talk to some engineering students since she is dating one.

    Just so I don't annoy someone by continuing to post here, those that want to be kept up to date on her progress if she decides to do this, send me a PM and I will point you to her blog.

  2. #412

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    These comments saying that Kodachrome is so obsolete that we should just forget about reviving it would have a lot more credibility if they weren't coming from one of the last of the Mohicans. Last time I checked not everybody in the world is taking photographs with silver halide film. Not only are there people in APUG talking about dye transfer, palladium printing, carbon prints, and trying to reproduce Autochromes (first marketed in 1905)--but some people are actually making ambrotypes and TINTYPES. There is a tintype photograph of Abraham Lincoln taken BEFORE he was president. If these processes are not obsolete, why is Kodachrome obsolete?

    I realize that the organic chemistry behind Kodachrome is obscure and inconvenient, but it is not unobtainable. Frankly I think those chemicals are a lot safer than handling collodion which is EXTREMELY flammable.

    Kodachrome was basically a black and white film which produced three layers of separation positives. These could be selectively developed to produce a full color image, albeit the cyan was somewhat lacking. But besides the sensitizing dyes the film was as robust as a black and white film, which is a considerable advantage. Also, since the larger grains were typically developed in the first development, the grains which produced the color image were smaller so you got a final image of incredible resolution. Kodachrome 25 was famous for being the highest resolution color film. I don't know if this is still true, but it made 8mm home movies possible.

    As a design I think it is still valid. If we could get the shuttle footage developed in a normal manner we could have some incredibly fine images which are otherwise irreplaceable. There might be space enthusiasts as well as photography enthusiasts who would contribute to such an effort. We should beat the bushes and not the enthusiasts.

  3. #413
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Ken, perhaps this puts things in a better light.

    Customer: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
    Owner: No no! 'E's pining!
    Customer: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
    'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
    'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
    'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
    THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

    Substitute FILM for PARROT and you have Kodachrome.

    Apologies to Monty Python.


    Thanks for that. It's been years and years...

    Yes, I do get the point. But simply discussing the history and background of this particular film is no different from threads that ask the question, how did those damn color Autochrome* glass plates work? Or those damn wet collodian plates? Or those damn daguerreotypes? Kodachrome as a film now sleeps with that group of extinct** fishes.

    But it's probably still interesting stuff for those who don't already know about it. And probably very, very boring stuff for those who already do. Hence, the Ignore this thread option is provided to help out with that.

    Probably also worth noting is that this thread currently has over 18,000 views. So there must be some level of interest in the topic.

    Ken

    * I see that 'falotico' already beat me to this particular reference.

    ** But not totally extinct on the processing side, as Mr. Frizza has already demonstrated.
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 08-28-2013 at 08:06 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added asterisks...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #414
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    Nobody's expecting Kodachrome to come back. The discussion has been about processing the stock which remains.

    Stephen Frizza has accomplished the proof of concept- that it can be done. As PE says, someone will have to step up big time to make it happen.
    I think the best hope for it is whether Kevin Kittle can get his K-lab going, or if there's another one somewhere that someone can make work. That of course includes acquiring the chemicals, etc., and that it not be prohibitively expensive.

    As for whether this thread should continue--why not? If someone finds it meaningless, pointless, useless, or annoying, they should IMO just not read it.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #415
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Perhaps then the option 'Thread Tools > Ignore this thread' would be the best solution for you?

    Just trying to be helpful...



    Ken
    Exactly. People want to talk about Kodachrome, fine. No one in their right mind thinks there's much chance of it coming back. If you don't like it, it's easy to ignore and you won't see it anymore.

  6. #416
    RPC
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    "Just trying to be helpful"

    On the other hand, one could say that it is the naysayers who are trying to be helpful.

  7. #417
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPC View Post
    "Just trying to be helpful"

    On the other hand, one could say that it is the naysayers who are trying to be helpful.
    Well, there's helpful and then there's "helpful".
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  8. #418

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Nobody's expecting Kodachrome to come back. The discussion has been about processing the stock which remains.
    That is not what a few people seem to be saying. But let's leave it there.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #419
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPC View Post
    On the other hand, one could say...
    One could say anything...



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  10. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by falotico View Post
    These comments saying that Kodachrome is so obsolete that we should just forget about reviving it would have a lot more credibility if they weren't coming from one of the last of the Mohicans. Last time I checked not everybody in the world is taking photographs with silver halide film. Not only are there people in APUG talking about dye transfer, palladium printing, carbon prints, and trying to reproduce Autochromes (first marketed in 1905)--but some people are actually making ambrotypes and TINTYPES. There is a tintype photograph of Abraham Lincoln taken BEFORE he was president. If these processes are not obsolete, why is Kodachrome obsolete?

    I realize that the organic chemistry behind Kodachrome is obscure and inconvenient, but it is not unobtainable. Frankly I think those chemicals are a lot safer than handling collodion which is EXTREMELY flammable.

    Kodachrome was basically a black and white film which produced three layers of separation positives. These could be selectively developed to produce a full color image, albeit the cyan was somewhat lacking. But besides the sensitizing dyes the film was as robust as a black and white film, which is a considerable advantage. Also, since the larger grains were typically developed in the first development, the grains which produced the color image were smaller so you got a final image of incredible resolution. Kodachrome 25 was famous for being the highest resolution color film. I don't know if this is still true, but it made 8mm home movies possible.

    As a design I think it is still valid. If we could get the shuttle footage developed in a normal manner we could have some incredibly fine images which are otherwise irreplaceable. There might be space enthusiasts as well as photography enthusiasts who would contribute to such an effort. We should beat the bushes and not the enthusiasts.

    This is a long quote but it deserves a complete copy here.

    As one of the genuine Mohicans who has a real Mohican name in Lene Lenape (Weuksowagan - One who has knowledge), I can say that you are off base. In fact I can say a lot more in the language but the bottom line is that Kodachrome is dead! It is too hard to make, too hard to process and in spite of a large viewing audience, it is too hard to reproduce in any way.

    We should be a wemakendink wingelawsic witahemue.

    PE



 

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