Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,000   Posts: 1,524,333   Online: 700
      
Page 45 of 50 FirstFirst ... 35394041424344454647484950 LastLast
Results 441 to 450 of 493
  1. #441
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    ...WTF is the point?
    None of us has a right to stop discussion in its tracks just because we don't like the content. Except the moderators, which is a system we all bought into when we accepted the terms of service here. And thus far, none of them has seen sufficient cause to do so in this thread.

    If people want to discuss Kodachrome, regardless of where that discussion drifts, they need to be left alone to do that, provided they stay within the bounds of the rules they agreed to when they joined this site.

    If more knowledgeable members here choose not to weigh in on those discussion topics, that is their right. But telling others what they can and cannot discuss is not.

    That is the point...

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  2. #442
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,939
    Images
    65
    I think that Dan has made some excellent points. However, Ken has suggested that some of us have discouraged attempts to try something. Well, if you fully describe the effort to climb Everest, is it discouragement? If you don't tell them what they face, they might die. Things are not that extreme with climbing the Kodachrome "mountain", but it is fair to warn those who might attempt to "climb" it.

    That said, I have given the patent references and others have given the Kodak references. I'll state here and now that if anyone is working on the process, I will be glad to help them along the way. I expect them to post their current results and process and I will give advice to them so that they can move along to success. This is regardless of how hard it is for them, or how time consuming for both of us. I will post comments here on their thread.

    How is that for you all?

    PE

  3. #443
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, if you fully describe the effort to climb Everest, is it discouragement?
    No, that falls under the category of valuable assistance. Continually calling for the thread to be shut down, which would be a de facto end to the discussions, is another story.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #444
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Sal, while I mostly enjoy reading your posts, in this case I think you need to reread your own last one. Most of what you said seems to be only your strongly held opinions which you are trying to unilaterally apply to others. Usually your posts are models of logic. This one is not. And not everyone is so easily intimidated.



    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 08-29-2013 at 12:19 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Minor clarification...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #445

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    None of us has a right to stop discussion in its tracks just because we don't like the content. Except the moderators, which is a system we all bought into when we accepted the terms of service here. And thus far, none of them has seen sufficient cause to do so in this thread.

    If people want to discuss Kodachrome, regardless of where that discussion drifts, they need to be left alone to do that, provided they stay within the bounds of the rules they agreed to when they joined this site.

    If more knowledgeable members here choose not to weigh in on those discussion topics, that is their right. But telling others what they can and cannot discuss is not.

    That is the point...
    Fair enough, I'm getting out of here to go shoot, someone PM me if a lab-master pops up that is willing to take my hard earned cash to soup a few rolls of KR...

  6. #446
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,939
    Images
    65
    Ken, to combine your last two posts, what I wish is to close this thread and have one opened by actual workers in this area. Then we can talk about problems and solutions. That will be the logical course of action after all of this blather.

    And, telling someone about the difficulty of climbing Everest may be seen by some as intimidation and by others as valuable assistance. I have yet to have anyone except Steve come to me telling me that they are going to try. When they do, I will give them "valuable assistance".

    PE

  7. #447
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Fair enough, I'm getting out of here to go shoot...
    I envy you. Looking out my window right now, I wish I could as well.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  8. #448
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ken, to combine your last two posts, what I wish is to close this thread and have one opened by actual workers in this area. Then we can talk about problems and solutions. That will be the logical course of action after all of this blather.
    I agree it may be the logical course. Desirable, even. But will you still be OK with the status quo even if that doesn't end up happening?

    Herds of cats are tough objects to deal with, you know. Occasionally they can be led. But more often they must just be followed...



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  9. #449

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    San Clemente, California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,065
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    ...Endless naive fantasizing is not "giving it a try."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    The point is not that they haven't yet given it a follow-on try. It's that there is a small group here that is actively discouraging anyone from trying at all…
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Incorrect. They're being discouraged from continuing to blather endlessly about it. If/when someone actually tries, I'm confident that every poster in this thread would be very interested in reading about the results. Until then, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    …Other posters have already mentioned taking their discussions offline from APUG because they are afraid of the reactions they are seeing here. That's just intimidation, plain and simple…
    Nonsense, Ken. No children are involved in this thread. If the strongly stated opinions of those with decades of organic chemistry and photographic engineering experience convince naive posters to end their repetitious fantasies here and continue them elsewhere, in my opinion that's a successful APUG outcome, not intimidation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    …as far as energy and bandwidth goes, who are we to tell them what they can and cannot do with their own allotments of those? Their energy belongs to them, not us. I have no right to tell them how they should spend it. Or that they should move on because I don't like what they are discussing. Do you?...
    The "right" to "tell" anyone what they can and cannot do on APUG is reserved to this site's owner. Terms of service spell out what members and subscribers are authorized to post.

    As long as my posts adhere to APUG's rules, I have the "right" to express my opinion that, in its current form, this thread is nothing more than a distraction from more productive discussions. There are so many other aspects of analog photography which haven't already died -- like Kodachrome has -- that would derive more benefit from exploration and promotion. In my opinion, this thread can actually be considered detrimental. So yes, I have the "right" to post a suggestion that we "move on" from this thread. If I did so as often or insistently as fantasies have been repeated in it, you might have cause to gripe. But I haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Sal, while I mostly enjoy reading your posts, in this case I think you need to reread your own last one. Most of what you said seems to be only your strongly held opinions which you are trying to unilaterally apply to others...
    There's no need for me to reread my post -- I wrote it. All posts in this and every other thread are statements of opinion. On matters of technical information, the opinion of those with relevant background/experience, like Ron and Gerald, deserve great weight. Where specialized knowledge is not involved, everyone's opinion has the potential for equal validity and ought be evaluated based on the poster's "credibility capital" built up over the course of their forum tenure.

    Forum opinions and suggestions are posted for the benefit of readers. Whether they "apply" to any individual forum reader can only be decided by that person. There's no "unilaterality" involved in what I wrote. Either it successfully gets through or it doesn't. It apparently hasn't sunk in yet for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    ..not everyone is so easily intimidated...
    Repeating invalid accusations is no more useful or productive than repeating fantasies.

  10. #450
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,094
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    It apparently hasn't sunk in yet for you.
    You are correct Sal. Everyone does have a right to hold and express their individual opinions, including you.

    However, an implementation problem with that right arises when one's opinion, intentionally or otherwise, drifts to the point of opining my opinion is that everyone else should now hold my opinion. At that point the circular logic begins to fray substantially around the edges. Given the above out-of-character pejorative comment by you, I think you may be at or near that point in this exchange. And I don't think you realize it.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin