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  1. #91
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    The fact is that these days using film in itself is rather the exception than the norm.
    The case may be that in the wedding photography sector the work produced in film is percentually* higher than in general photography. Maybe film is used in 3% of general photography and 5% of wedding photography.

    I read somewhere an article written by a wedding photographer who had switched back to film. His main reason was that the post-processing work in a digital wedding shot can be a long task and it takes away a lot of time. This wedding photographer started again to make the work in colour negative, bring it to a pro lab, have the work back well printed, and live happily. His reasoning was that the film and lab cost was very convenient if compared to the labour saved.
    This probably boils down to the fact that if the wedding is shot on film the client does expect some tenths of beautiful prints and not some hundreds of post-processed photographs delivered on a CD.

    You mileage may vary. I am not a wedding photographer. Last wedding I remember was in December 2003 and there were a photographer, an assistant, a couple Hasselblads (series V) many film backs and at least a couple of torch flash involved. But that was 2003.




    * How do you bloody say "percentually" in English without having the spell checker scream?
    Wedding photography is more challenging now that it was in the past. Now the bridezillas want the wedding photographs and videos to send to friends and post on line two weeks before the wedding!
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  2. #92
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Finally someone spike the truth

    Finally someone spike the truth

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    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    Wedding photography is more challenging now that it was in the past. Now the bridezillas want the wedding photographs and videos to send to friends and post on line two weeks before the wedding!
    Lol! You might onto something here, imagine walking up to a girl you fancy in a bar who has no ring on and saying to her, "You want me to photograph your wedding don't you....I can tell." as a form of pickup line...

    I guess what you are really asking is to be her "Official Honeymoon" photographer...

    Siriusly though, the people who practically begged me to do the creative work at their daughter's wedding next year own both original prints of mine and St. Ansel's and love what I do. I am not sure how many of these types of commissions I would want to do per year, maybe two?
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    It depends how you see it. You can't expect to shoot any paid gigs with film nowadays....unless your film photography (large film format I assume) is something unique.
    I would phrase it differently.

    "You can't expect to shoot any properly paid gigs nowadays....unless your marketing and business practices are good."

    There really are plenty of people that can do really nice photographs. I would think that a super majority of the 61,052 APUG members that exist at the time of this post could easily reach the quality threshold required.

    There are far fewer people who are willing to do the work and take the risks needed to make a good business of it.

    Examples of some successful film shooters in the portrait and wedding market.

    http://canlasphotography.blogspot.com/

    http://josevillablog.com/

    I'm not suggesting that film can fit every market but these guys are proof that it can work just fine in their market.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I would phrase it differently.

    "You can't expect to shoot any properly paid gigs nowadays....unless your marketing and business practices are good."

    There really are plenty of people that can do really nice photographs. I would think that a super majority of the 61,052 APUG members that exist at the time of this post could easily reach the quality threshold required.

    There are far fewer people who are willing to do the work and take the risks needed to make a good business of it.

    Examples of some successful film shooters in the portrait and wedding market.

    http://canlasphotography.blogspot.com/

    http://josevillablog.com/

    I'm not suggesting that film can fit every market but these guys are proof that it can work just fine in their market.

    No, this isn't about your ability. It is about the business of photography. Just because you are capable of shooting film, it does not mean you can make a successful business out of your photography. You must have a market for you works. And clients who are willing to pay for your services at your asking price. And whether or not you can fulfill your client's expectations with the necessary turn around time. I am pretty sure it is not a smart idea to promote yourself as a film wedding photographer in order to define your niche market and your style.... you have to ask yourself if the couples would care if the photos are shot with film or digital?? All they want is good quality photos. Not all couples are art majors. Not all couples know anything about photography.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I would phrase it differently.

    "You can't expect to shoot any properly paid gigs nowadays....unless your marketing and business practices are good."
    This is exactly what I mean. There are many reasons I might use various tools and methods. To allow what others do and say to dictate my methods make me a victim of hype and marketing. I's rather be a damn good photographer who's in demand because of his work. If I went around trying to compete with soccer moms and GWC's I'd be one of them. No way. By the way these people existed long before 010101. There are just more of them these days. I din't pay attention to them before, and i don't now. I cant afford to.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    No, this isn't about your ability. It is about the business of photography. Just because you are capable of shooting film, it does not mean you can make a successful business out of your photography. You must have a market for you works. And clients who are willing to pay for your services at your asking price. And whether or not you can fulfill your client's expectations with the necessary turn around time. I am pretty sure it is not a smart idea to promote yourself as a film wedding photographer in order to define your niche market and your style.... you have to ask yourself if the couples would care if the photos are shot with film or digital?? All they want is good quality photos. Not all couples are art majors. Not all couples know anything about photography.
    So let me get this straight...

    You do cycling spec work and talk among other amateur photographers who engage in the new practically-free-till-I-make-it-big wedding market and then reply with the statement above to full time professionals who are giving you *direct* examples of how it does work?

    I'm sorry but you are just not getting it in my opinion. The market for the 1K shooter is not growing, it is contracting....fast. So that is not really a market to aspire to then, right? The market to aspire to break into is one that requires you as the shooter to effectively show through dynamic marketing presence high levels of skill and above all, talent. This shooter can easily market his film work to further set his product apart and it will work, because his client base IS educated, well cultured and wants more than "Just good quality photos" to begin with.

    The people you refer to above are not even a market as they would happily pay you $100 or nothing at all for "Just good quality photos"....

    That is what you are missing here, what you refer to is not even a market while the one the film shooter is going after most certainly is...
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    So let me get this straight...

    You do cycling spec work and talk among other amateur photographers who engage in the new practically-free-till-I-make-it-big wedding market and then reply with the statement above to full time professionals who are giving you *direct* examples of how it does work?

    I'm sorry but you are just not getting it in my opinion. The market for the 1K shooter is not growing, it is contracting....fast. So that is not really a market to aspire to then, right? The market to aspire to break into is one that requires you as the shooter to effectively show through dynamic marketing presence high levels of skill and above all, talent. This shooter can easily market his film work to further set his product apart and it will work, because his client base IS educated, well cultured and wants more than "Just good quality photos" to begin with.

    The people you refer to above are not even a market as they would happily pay you $100 or nothing at all for "Just good quality photos"....

    That is what you are missing here, what you refer to is not even a market while the one the film shooter is going after most certainly is...

    You make it to sound like film photography is making a come back and driving out all those wedding photographers shooting with their 20mp+ full frame camera. The reality is the opposite. This is the first time I heard about the 1k wedding market is shrinking. With today's economy, 1k for most couples for wedding photography can be too much. Don't believe me? Go look up Criag List for the $500 wedding photographers. Of course, if your typical clients are making more than 6 figure annual incomes, you would probably don't care too much about the normal folks. To generalize your unusual experiences to the general photography market is just wrong. Just out of touch with the reality.

  9. #99
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    No, this isn't about your ability. It is about the business of photography. Just because you are capable of shooting film, it does not mean you can make a successful business out of your photography. You must have a market for you works. And clients who are willing to pay for your services at your asking price. And whether or not you can fulfill your client's expectations with the necessary turn around time. I am pretty sure it is not a smart idea to promote yourself as a film wedding photographer in order to define your niche market and your style.... you have to ask yourself if the couples would care if the photos are shot with film or digital?? All they want is good quality photos. Not all couples are art majors. Not all couples know anything about photography.
    People like stories and reasons. Film doesn't need to be "the" story or reason but it can be easily used as another thing to help people make a choice or remember you.

    That really isn't why Jose or Jonathan use film though.

    Two of the reasons are 1-that they can use films intrinsic qualities to reliably get a beautiful salable product with the specific qualities they want and 2-the production workflow is simple and very high quality; Shoot, send to a really good lab, receive proofs and scans back from lab, show client proofs, send orders to lab, receive finished stuff, take cash, deliver.

    To the best of my knowledge these guys, like Henri Cartier-Bresson, don't do the back end work themselves; so they get to spend their time on more profitable work like looking for more gigs or putting on seminars.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    You make it to sound like film photography is making a come back and driving out all those wedding photographers shooting with their 20mp+ full frame camera. The reality is the opposite. This is the first time I heard about the 1k wedding market is shrinking. With today's economy, 1k for most couples for wedding photography can be too much. Don't believe me? Go look up Criag List for the $500 wedding photographers. Of course, if your typical clients are making more than 6 figure annual incomes, you would probably don't care too much about the normal folks. To generalize your unusual experiences to the general photography market is just wrong. Just out of touch with the reality.
    This has almost nothing to do with film, it could be paper machece for all I care. What it does have to do with is that the higher end of the market has the education and the funds to hire out truly great work and that market will pretty much be there unless the entire planet falls into socialism and no one makes upper income.

    The Craigslist market you refer to is being flooded by more and more software developers and store clerks who want to shore up their income so this is more of a supply and demand meets public perception thing....it's not a market for a professional photographer as JBrunner tried to tell you...

    And yes, although not on remotely a scale that harkens that pre-digital, pre-Internet days, film is making a fine art-esque and welcome come back into paid work. All my art directors and editors are enjoying it and are even paying the slight markup in some cases. We are all enjoying it, that helps to keep the final product fresh not to mention those involved.

    No one is saying that film is making "the" come back in some form of anti-digital retaliation but more of the high profile niche it rightly deserves. When you are competing in a world of millions of people with cameras who call them selves photographers, having a niche is a good thing, being part of the general market is simply not....

    Not where "Freetography" is concerned anyway...
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~



 

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