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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Exactly, and that market is all but vanishing sir, so why is it that when ever the so called "market" is discussed at all on the net, it instantly drops to the lowest demographic in terms of both earning power and creative output? This baffles me...

    But most importantly in terms of this discussion, photography in general is undergoing sweeping changes from top to bottom, so in my opinion you can't even use a broad based approach anymore to describing what is really going on, it is just far too varied when attaching a label to it.

    Even if one pro in the whole world is using film in their work, then film is being used in paid work, period.

    I know the market in general because I am frequently in many discussions with people doing photography works. We often talk about the market. The money side of photography. I personally have been doing spec work on cycling race photography for 3 years. Local races. Is a miracle I could even make some money from my photography but in general sports photography does not pay unless you work for agencies and doing large commercial works. And wedding photography is one market EVERYBODY is trying to get into to make some money with their photography. Sorry to say but the reasons why the photography industry it is what it is right now because of the digital revolution. It is getting easier for most people to take photos. With practice, you can even produce pro results with a digital camera. And most people don't believe in paying for photos nowadays. Or most newcomers believe in shooting for free in order to gain recognitions and hopefully getting paid gig referrals in the future. LOL. Yes, I know the market. I am also the products of this revolution. I am getting into film right now after years of shooting digital. Is a nice change of pace. I don't hold any romantic view on film photography. It is just a different format, that's all.

  2. #82

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    Whatev's...

    I am with LX and JBrunner on this one, I don't understand blanket statements and blanket thinking, I wear a beanie if my head is cold...:-)
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  3. #83

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    I hate the word RULES. I like film but hate the word RULES.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chan Tran View Post
    I hate the word RULES. I like film but hate the word RULES.
    Well then let me re-phrase it.
    Film is Superior.
    .
    .
    I bet this will start a new arguement.

    All I was trying to say in my OP was that I never lost a film image. However even with well above average effort I lost a lot of digital images. Poof they were gone.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    I am referring to the general market. Not the top of the food chain.
    You should have said that before. Thanks for the clarification. Your earlier statements make a little more sense now. It's hard for anyone to make money in the "general market" these days, film or digital.
    Last edited by lxdude; 12-01-2012 at 03:20 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    I know the market in general because I am frequently in many discussions with people doing photography works. We often talk about the market. The money side of photography. I personally have been doing spec work on cycling race photography for 3 years. Local races. Is a miracle I could even make some money from my photography but in general sports photography does not pay unless you work for agencies and doing large commercial works. And wedding photography is one market EVERYBODY is trying to get into to make some money with their photography. Sorry to say but the reasons why the photography industry it is what it is right now because of the digital revolution. It is getting easier for most people to take photos. With practice, you can even produce pro results with a digital camera. And most people don't believe in paying for photos nowadays. Or most newcomers believe in shooting for free in order to gain recognitions and hopefully getting paid gig referrals in the future. LOL. Yes, I know the market. I am also the products of this revolution. I am getting into film right now after years of shooting digital. Is a nice change of pace. I don't hold any romantic view on film photography. It is just a different format, that's all.
    Please realize this is constructive. If you ever want to actually make money with photography you must move away from spec work and 1k weddings. Those are not really the professional market. I see now where you are coming from.

  7. #87
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    The fact is that these days using film in itself is rather the exception than the norm.
    The case may be that in the wedding photography sector the work produced in film is percentually* higher than in general photography. Maybe film is used in 3% of general photography and 5% of wedding photography.

    I read somewhere an article written by a wedding photographer who had switched back to film. His main reason was that the post-processing work in a digital wedding shot can be a long task and it takes away a lot of time. This wedding photographer started again to make the work in colour negative, bring it to a pro lab, have the work back well printed, and live happily. His reasoning was that the film and lab cost was very convenient if compared to the labour saved.
    This probably boils down to the fact that if the wedding is shot on film the client does expect some tenths of beautiful prints and not some hundreds of post-processed photographs delivered on a CD.

    You mileage may vary. I am not a wedding photographer. Last wedding I remember was in December 2003 and there were a photographer, an assistant, a couple Hasselblads (series V) many film backs and at least a couple of torch flash involved. But that was 2003.




    * How do you bloody say "percentually" in English without having the spell checker scream?
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    Please realize this is constructive. If you ever want to actually make money with photography you must move away from spec work and 1k weddings. Those are not really the professional market. I see now where you are coming from.


    I agree. It is often easier said than done....that's why I am not planning to do much spec works next year. Maybe a handful of bike races, instead of a full season of 35+ races.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    Wedding photography is more challenging now that it was in the past. Now the bridezillas want the wedding photographs and videos to send to friends and post on line two weeks before the wedding!
    Lol! You might onto something here, imagine walking up to a girl you fancy in a bar who has no ring on and saying to her, "You want me to photograph your wedding don't you....I can tell." as a form of pickup line...

    I guess what you are really asking is to be her "Official Honeymoon" photographer...

    Siriusly though, the people who practically begged me to do the creative work at their daughter's wedding next year own both original prints of mine and St. Ansel's and love what I do. I am not sure how many of these types of commissions I would want to do per year, maybe two?
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyShots View Post
    It depends how you see it. You can't expect to shoot any paid gigs with film nowadays....unless your film photography (large film format I assume) is something unique.
    I would phrase it differently.

    "You can't expect to shoot any properly paid gigs nowadays....unless your marketing and business practices are good."

    There really are plenty of people that can do really nice photographs. I would think that a super majority of the 61,052 APUG members that exist at the time of this post could easily reach the quality threshold required.

    There are far fewer people who are willing to do the work and take the risks needed to make a good business of it.

    Examples of some successful film shooters in the portrait and wedding market.

    http://canlasphotography.blogspot.com/

    http://josevillablog.com/

    I'm not suggesting that film can fit every market but these guys are proof that it can work just fine in their market.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin



 

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