C41 Recipe

[HumbleP]

Hi,
I'm getting closer to mixing my own C41 recipe and trying a DIY process for the first time.
While I'm learning a lot and I have experience with B&W chemicals, I'm basically a beginner.
In the recipe below I've managed to source everything except for Hydroxylamine Sulphate.
I'm wondering if some of you knowledgeable folk here can tell me if there is anything else I could substitute or source that would serve the same purpose?

Edit: I can't find CD4 either....so question applies to this as well

C41 Recipe:
Color developer
Potassium carbonate 64.0 g
Sodium sulfite, anhydrous 7.0 g
Potassium bromide 3.0 g
Hydroxylamine sulfate 4.0 g
CD4 10.0 g
Water to 2.0 L

Stop bath
Acetic acid, 5% 400 ml
Water to 2.0 L

Bleach
Potassium ferricyanide 160 g
Potassium Bromide 40 g
Water to 2.0 L

Fixer
Ammonium Thiosulfate, 60% 240 mL
EDTA 2 g
Sodium Bisulfite 24 g
Sodium Hydroxide 5 g
Water to 2.0 L

Thanks.
Peter

[Bob-D659]

Well, sources depend on where in the world are you? Update your profile with at least your country for better answers.

[Gerald C Koch]

There is no substitute for the hydroxylamine sulfate nor can you leave it out. It is howwever a common chemical and should be available. The IUPAC name is hydroxyazanium sulfate, CAS number 10039-54-0

Color Developing Agent (CD 4) 4-(N-Ethyl-N-2-hydroxyethyl)-2-methylphenylenediamine sulfate CAS number 25646-77-9

The problem may be in obtaining small amounts of these chemicals.

[Athiril]

There is 1 substitute I know of for Hydroxylamine Sulphate, and that is Hydroxylamine Chloride, which is about $100 for 500g shipped from Japan worldwide via eBay iirc. You use less of this than HAS.

As for CD-4.. that's another issue, can be made with precursors, I have the method for that floating around here, but it's not as simple as mixing a developer formulation.

[kb3lms]

Peter,

You can get both CD-4 and HAS from Artcraft Chemical or Photographer's Formulary. If you want to mix developers and things they are your friend.

I'd also suggest you make up your chemistry 1 litre at a time unless you are planing to use it one shot. Even so, for a first attempt you may find yourself tweaking it a bit. Color chemistry doesn't last all that long. A few weeks maybe but not months.

Lastly, you will need to add sulfite to your stop bath, or you will get horrible stain on your negatives. The amount to add is in the forums here somewhere. However, you can go overboard and it won't hurt so too much is better than too little. Search under C-41, or ECN-2 maybe. Anyway, the sulfite scavenges any remaining color developer before your bleach step. Without the sulfite any developer remaining in the emulsion will "activate" all the color couplers forming dyes for all the colors that will essentially put a dark brown mask over your negatives. That's a very simplfied explanation but essentially what happens.

Note that stop bath doesn't remove developer, just deactivates it by changing the process to an acid pH instead of alkaline. Developer has to be washed out of the emulsion.

Have fun!

-- Jason

[Photo Engineer]

Peter, the developer formula is not correct and you have left out the stabilizer. I do not have the developer formula, but there are good ones posted here and there on the internet. Basically, you must have some Potassium Iodide in the formula, and I believe that the CD4 level is too high. You must also check the pH. It is 10.1.

PE

[Gerald C Koch]

There is 1 substitute I know of for Hydroxylamine Sulphate, and that is Hydroxylamine Chloride

I seem to remember a previous thread where it was said that the two salts were not interchangeable in color developers.

[Photo Engineer]

Jerry;

You are correct! The extra Chloride can affect development.

You can use Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate or DiEthyl Hydroxylamine Oxalate. These are both commercially available.

PE

[HumbleP]

I'm in Sydney and have updated my profile.
I'll keep researching and trying to source.
Thanks everyone!

[Athiril]

HumbleP, you can order Flexicolor LORR developer from Vanbar, instead of tetenal kits, it is much cheaper whether one shot or replenished.

Also the recipe that's best considered online is likely this one http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=695106

But the HAS level is much lower than Flexicolor let alone LORR/LU, meaning it's shelf life is probably shorter.

The shelf life of mixed LORR/LU is double of normal flexicolor, the difference is that it has more carbonate alkali, and double the amount of HAS as regular Flexicolor, while the same amount of CD-4. Not only is the shelf life twice as long, the replenishment rate is halved, meaning 2x as much film per litre.

Jerry;

You are correct! The extra Chloride can affect development.

You can use Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate or DiEthyl Hydroxylamine Oxalate. These are both commercially available.

PE

I assumed it'd be too weak in the amounts used though. Eg, in the C-27 formula given in my link, it is 2g of HAS, in return, I assume you would use 850mg of the hydroxylamine chloride salt as a substitute, which would result in there being 920mg of KCl in solution per litre wouldn't there?