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  1. #41
    wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EASmithV View Post
    Cheap gloves and a fan outside the door blowing the air into a larger room... got it.
    Actually you want the fan blowing the air from the darkroom OUTSIDE, not into another room. The only time you want your fan blowing inside the house, is if it's blowing into the exhaust feed of a heat recovery ventilator. The reason is quite simple, if your blowing toxic fumes into another room, it's going to get into the cold air return and your getting toxic fumes throughout the house. You want chemical resistant gloves, and not all plastics are chemical resistant. Nitrile is chemical resistant, and those are the best to use, buy by the box, and don't try to reuse them.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    Your last sentence is, I feel, a very shaky conclusion. Can we expect to see notices on meat soon that says "meat kills" or at least "eating meat can damage your health"

    Maybe the meat lobby is too powerful as was the tobacco lobby for many years

    I respect your heart-felt conclusions on the matter you mention and your right to take action appropriate to you but where is the evidenced based studies to back up the general conclusions.

    We all of us may have our own theories on darkroom chemicals' propensity for harm, including me, but I don't think any of us would be happy to take medicines if they had been approved and released to the market on such little evidence.

    Anything less than a properly conducted randomised control trial which involves thousands of people and a great deal of money to conduct remains suspect in terms of any conclusions reached.

    pentaxuser
    I dont believe that vegetarians experience cancer at such a low level. However, there are clear benefits to such a diet including lower rates of cancer (among other diseases).

    The China Study is one of the largest studies that looked into dietary choices and health.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Study

  3. #43
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    Cancer is more of a genetic predisposition kinda thing and it could be triggered in various ways.
    In the darkroom, the appropriate safety masks, gloves, clothes etc. etc. are recommended or necessary, depending on what You are doing.
    Liver, kidneys, spleen etc, prophylactics/flush every now and then can help joyride Your bones above 100 years.

    I doubt such lower % amongst vegan/vegetarians, unless they rely on biodynamic agriculture products, unfortunately most of them do not.

    Diapozitivo, do You know Enzo Nastati?

  4. #44
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    No, I don't know Enzo Nastati

    I was looking around yesterday for statistics about vegetarianism and cancer. Found recent statistics which give a marked correlation but not so marked as I remembered. Meat eaters are some say 2, some say even 10 times more likely to get a cancer, but they have not so dramatically higher probabilities as 40 or 50 times higher.

    What I remember is statistics known let's say 30 years ago and based on studies which were, in turn, decades older.

    I think that modern western life has greatly increased the possibility of cancer: formaldehyde in our furniture, preservatives in our underwear, fluoride in drinking water (greatly increased in respect to decades ago, because bacteria become resistant), and possibly higher number of people exposed to air pollution (urban drift) have probably increased the number of cancers favoured by extra-alimentary factors. Vegetarians are not any more so much at "advantage" because the other risks have increased.

    Nonetheless I read a text saying some of those research don't examine real vegetarians. Vegetarian, or non-meat eater, is often defined somebody who eats meat less than once a week. Meat-eaters are those who eat meat at least once a day or so. They should be defined "strong carnivorous" and "mild carnivorous" in fact. I understand that an extensive study about "strict vegetarians" is more difficult to conduct.

    One thing I remember having read is that in Britain during WWII when meat availability was severely restrained for several years the cancer rate dropped dramatically.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  5. #45

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    From Cancer.org:

    Studies that look at people and their habits have linked vegetarian diets with a decreased risk of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, and colon cancer. A review of studies looked at the effects of vegetarian diets among Seventh-Day Adventists, whose religious doctrine advises against eating animal flesh. The review found that Seventh-Day Adventists had less heart disease and fewer cases of some types of cancer than most people. For instance, vegetarians tended to have lower rates of prostate and colon cancer. On average, Seventh-Day Adventist males had serum cholesterol levels and blood pressures that were lower than average. And, their overall cancer death rate was about half that of the general population. The overall cancer death rate of females was also lower. The report cautioned that abstinence from tobacco and alcohol was very likely responsible for some of the health effects that are often credited to vegetarian diets in Seventh-Day Adventists.

    A study that looked at groups of people in Germany found the death rate for colon cancer was lower among moderate and strict vegetarians compared with that of the general population. The authors of this study also noted vegetarians tend to be more health conscious than average. In Great Britain, a 17-year study followed 11,000 vegetarians and health-conscious people. They concluded that eating fresh fruit every day was linked to a significant reduction in deaths from ischemic heart disease, stroke, and all causes of death combined. Another population study found men who ate a diet rich in grains, cereals, and nuts had a lower risk of prostate cancer.

    In 1991, two nutritionists studying the benefits and risks of vegetarian diets reported that vegetarians are not necessarily healthier than non-vegetarians. They found that well-planned omnivorous diets (which include meats) can provide health benefits as well. The nutritionists also pointed out that many vegetarians adopt a healthier lifestyle, including more physical exercise and not smoking. These factors would likely improve the overall health of vegetarians and account for part of the health benefit that was first thought to be due to their diet.

    To look at these other health factors, a study published in 2005 compared more than 1,000 German vegetarians with nearly 700 health-conscious non-vegetarians over a 21-year period. This study found that there were no major differences between the groups in terms of death and disease, although the vegetarians had slightly less heart disease. Both groups were healthier than the general population, in part due to less smoking and more physical activity.

    Most human evidence about vegetarianism consists only of studies that observe people (observational studies) and their risk for various diseases such as cancer. These studies don't test different diets; they only look at what people are already doing. Because of this, the studies often can't control for non-food differences (like exercise and other healthy habits) between vegetarians and other people.

    Very few clinical studies have been reported in which people are put on different diets and studied over time. A few studies of men with prostate cancer have reported that major life changes including vegetarianism, exercise, and stress reduction can slow the rise in blood PSA levels. How much the vegetarian diet contributed to these benefits remains unproven.

  6. #46
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    The bottom line then is, become a Vegan and then do home processing of photographic materials. They will counteract each other and you come out even.

    My uncle, a life long photographer, is about to turn 92.

    PE

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    1%: Personal knowledge spread a bit everywhere. You will certainly find similar data if you look for the relation between cancer and meat consumption, or lack of cancer and vegetarianism. That is repeated in TV documentaries from time to time and is very old knowledge. Adolf Hitler (there! ) was vegetarian and abstemious because he had fear of getting cancer. Maybe you'll find statistics saying 2% or 3%. You get the point. Vegetarians "don't" get cancer and substances in meat (putrescina and cadaverina, in Italian, are those I remember) are not good for you and I presume are also implicated in cancer. Besides, animal fat cooked at high temperature is carcinogenic etc. (some grills, now, are made in such a way that the fat dripping from the meat does not fall on the flame to come back as toxic fume to the meat). You'll certainly find many studies about that.

    Cadmium: it's the "can" which releases cadmium. That's why lately there is a widespread recourse to "white inside" cans. "White inside" cans have a film of something which should not release harmful substances. In general, metal packages release metal particles. Only glass is really inert. Regular fish fished in nature doesn't contain Cadmium, only Mercury

    Many packages, as you know, deliver substances to the food. For instance PET bottles deliver phthalates (said to cause impotence). Well, cans are said to deliver Cadmium. There are norms which dictate how much is not too much. I personally drink glass-bottled water.

    Hitler was a vegan? No wonder he was crazy.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    My uncle, a life long photographer, is about to turn 92.

    PE
    He must be doing something right apart from photography but in terms of a randomised control trial is he statistically significant I bet the pensions actuary society are not best pleased

    I like your dry humour. Great conclusions about the vegan correlation. There is clearly British genes somewhere in the family

    pentaxuser

  9. #49
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    Thanks.

    Scotch, Irish, French and Czech actually. But I like the Goon Show and Britcoms. Does that count?

    PE

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    Hitler was a vegan? No wonder he was crazy.
    I never said he was a vegan. I said he was vegetarian and abstemious, besides inviting himself in every internet forum after his death
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

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