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  1. #11
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Until 1965, when the new Ektaprint 3 process and papers and the new C41 process, all other companies had their own proprietary processes for color products with the exception of Fuji and Konica which had Kodachrome compatible films.

    At the time the new C41 and EP3 were introduced, the films used entirely new chemistry to improve sharpness and grain along with speed. These improvements were patented and any other company that wanted to equal Kodak materials had to get a license.

    The Japanese (Sakura and Fuji) were coating with high speed coaters which laid down several layers at one time. This again was a Kodak patent that was just expiring at that time. So, the Japanese could equal the Kodak output and product but only by license of patents, and since the new materials broke new grounds chemically, the Japanese had some catch up to do. Their products did not equal those of Kodak until about 1990. Fuji finally exceeded Kodak quality with reversal films, but Kodak kept the lead in neg-pos products.

    Agfa, until about 1965 was using a different color chemistry which caused problems with high speed mulit layer coatings and so they had to re-design all of their color products and coating machines. This caused a considerable lag that lasted until the early '80s IIRC. I do know that Agfa engineers were trying to get information on Kodak coating speeds and the number of layers we were coating. Well, in 1965 we were doing more than 6 layers at one time and nearly 1000 ft/min and no one was able to match that productivity at that time.

    Everyone finally caught up to those figures, but Kodak is doing better than that now! If need be, Kodak could supply the entire color and B&W marked, but obviously there are other players and the market share has been destroyed by both digital and the actions of Kodak's top management.

    PE

  2. #12
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Any newer Agfa film that says Agfa is going to be relabelled Fuji
    That is FALSE

    an Agfa cartridge contains Agfa film!

    You mix up Agfa and AgfaPhoto.



    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Agfa's industrial branch may coat some film, probably as a contract coater now though, because the photography division is long gone.
    Agfa coats a huge amount of film.
    Only a part of that is contract coating of their very own films.
    They still have a photography department.
    What they sold, and what in success went under, was their consumer department (amateurs, prof. photographers, labs)



    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Ferrania IIRC went broke a few years ago,.... Like Ferrania any Konica film out there is expired by now.
    Ferrania had a troublesome past including changes of ownership which did not affect film production and is still alive. They coated photographic materials until recently, so their films, under whatever label won't be expired yet.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-28-2012 at 07:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Until 1965, when the new Ektaprint 3 process and papers and the new C41 process, all other companies had their own proprietary processes.
    Process Ektaprint-3 was introduced 1971.
    Process C-41 was introduced 1975.


    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Agfa, until about 1965 was using a different color chemistry...
    Agfa was the last western company to change over to oil-embedded couplers (Ektachrome principle).
    They started that change in 1978.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-28-2012 at 08:23 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    My favorite films were always Agfa. They might not have been as good as far as grain size but I preferred the colors. I still have a ton of 35mm Optima 100 that I bought back in '07. That is my all time favorite color film. Of course these days it is a little "off" but I still like it. I do color through the computer anyway so it isn't that big of a deal to fix.

    Most of the film from these old manufacturers that you buy these days will be toast if you expect the best quality and they can't compare to the latest films like Ektar. Still some may have unique or quirky characteristics that you may find endearing. Back before the digital world, I always liked 3M films (Ferrania?) even though they weren't that "great". What I liked about them was the saturation was low. Back when the only option was to have it optically printed the characteristics of the film were very important. If you still print in the darkroom that is still true, but once an image hits a computer the differences even among modern films is diluted.

    If you are looking for old color films a good place is http://www.ultrafineonline.com That is where I bought the old Agfa stuff back in '07 and I was just looking today at their website. They have lots of old films and they are cheap too.

  5. #15
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Process Ektaprint-3 was introduced 1971.
    Process C-41 was introduced 1975.




    Agfa was the last western company to change over to oil-embedded couplers (Ektachrome principle).
    They started that change in 1978.
    AgX; Ektaprint 3 was actually introduced in 1969 at School Finishres of Webster! C41 was 1 year later.

    Agfa introduced the new coulers in 1978, but stared R&D much earlier.

    PE

  6. #16
    AgX
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    Yes, I mixed up dates. C-41 was introduced '71 or '72.

    I rather think the latter, as combined with the new Pocket-system.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-29-2012 at 03:42 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    That is FALSE

    an Agfa cartridge contains Agfa film!

    You mix up Agfa and AgfaPhoto.





    Agfa coats a huge amount of film.
    Only a part of that is contract coating of their very own films.
    They still have a photography department.
    What they sold, and what in success went under, was their consumer department (amateurs, prof. photographers, labs)

    Ferrania had a troublesome past including changes of ownership which did not affect film production and is still alive. They coated photographic materials until recently, so their films, under whatever label won't be expired yet.
    Agfa's old industrial division may coat film, they may coat it by the ship load, but they don't make film for consumer use, anything that says Agfa on it, is either expired or it's not true Agfa film. Yes AgfaPhoto could have had Agfa's Industrial division coat some Agfa emulsions, but they didn't they rebadged Fuji something or other, and there is no guarantee that they will be spooling the same film next week.

    Ferrania is no longer making film, they quit production in December 2008, so that film is at least 4 years old, since most film is dated to expire 3 years after production, that means the last of their production should be expired by now.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  8. #18
    AgX
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    Agfa offers type 135 film colour film. So that may come into consumers hand.
    Maco offers a lot of film bearing the Agfa logo on the box.


    Ferrania: December 2008? Where do you got that information?

    Furthermore film is frozen in certain cases even by the industry. Even Agfa did so to gap production of colour materials when German plant went under.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-29-2012 at 08:12 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Agfa's old industrial division may coat film, they may coat it by the ship load, but they don't make film for consumer use, anything that says Agfa on it, is either expired or it's not true Agfa film.
    Sorry, Paul, that is not correct. Agfa-Gevaert in Antwerp, Belgium, is the third biggest film manufacturer worldwide, only Kodak and Fujifilm are bigger.
    And as a normal consumer / photographer you can buy fresh film manufactured by them without problems. Several different BW and color film types are offered by Maco/Rollei-Film, and one film is also offered by Adox (CMS 20 II = Agfa HDP microfilm).

    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Ferrania is no longer making film, they quit production in December 2008,
    Their last production runs were at the end of 2009 (at least one of their biggest long term customers told me that).

    Best regards,
    Henning

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henning Serger View Post
    Sorry, Paul, that is not correct. Agfa-Gevaert in Antwerp, Belgium, is the third biggest film manufacturer worldwide, only Kodak and Fujifilm are bigger.
    And as a normal consumer / photographer you can buy fresh film manufactured by them without problems. Several different BW and color film types are offered by Maco/Rollei-Film, and one film is also offered by Adox (CMS 20 II = Agfa HDP microfilm).



    Their last production runs were at the end of 2009 (at least one of their biggest long term customers told me that).

    Best regards,
    Henning
    Okay in the case of Agfa-Gevaert there is a possibility they are making consumer film under contract to Maco, Rollie and Adox, that's NOT Agfa labelled film, whether it's an old Agfa-Gevaert emulsion or not, you would need to confirm with Maco, Rollie or Adox. From what I understand they do manufacture xray and other diagnostic and scientific materials, but that's not the same. Any consumer film labelled Agfa that was manufactured by Agfa-Gevaert is now expired. There is AgfaPhoto film that is not Agfa film, it's a re-badged Fuji something. As for Ferriana(sp?) if they made the last roll at the end of 2009, it would now be very stale dated if not expired.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

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