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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Doesn't mean that Kodak will disappear, they would simply hire out film and paper coating to others. Ilford has already said they will coat for hire and they have the machinery in place to do colour emulsions at their UK facility. It would be simple, Ilford coats the masters and ships them to Rochester where they cut them into portions, and freeze them. As they need finished film they thaw a portion and finish it. When they thaw the last portion, they ring up Moberly and get another master roll shipped over.
    Apart from PE's comments that master rolls are not frozen, I believe that Simon Galley has said on here that Ilford/Harman were not interested in coating colour emulsions.....not sure if that was for profitability or technical reasons?

    Perhaps they would be interested in coating, cutting and finishing B&W films to other specs (as they do with their Kentmere films). But PE has said that a film product coated in one plant cannot be instantly or simply duplicated in another coating facility...I think I can recall that he once mentioned such issues with the "same" Kodak film coated in different Kodak factories?

  2. #32
    AgX
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    Master rolls are frozen in Europe, in exceptional cases.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Master rolls are frozen in Europe, in exceptional cases.
    Presumably specialist films with reduced demands, or maybe infra-red type emulsions? And I believe the large stocks of master rolls made by the original Agfa company just before its closure were frozen and cut and packed much later?

  4. #34
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    Acually a freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw cycle hurts film more than it helps. However, AgX is correct. If you plan on using all of a roll at one time, you can freeze it for long term keeping and then use all of it in one cycle. So, I generalized, but special conditions always apply.

    PE

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    Apart from PE's comments that master rolls are not frozen, I believe that Simon Galley has said on here that Ilford/Harman were not interested in coating colour emulsions.....not sure if that was for profitability or technical reasons?

    Perhaps they would be interested in coating, cutting and finishing B&W films to other specs (as they do with their Kentmere films). But PE has said that a film product coated in one plant cannot be instantly or simply duplicated in another coating facility...I think I can recall that he once mentioned such issues with the "same" Kodak film coated in different Kodak factories?
    Ilford may not be interested in coating colour at this point, whether that will always be the case or not, is debatable. There are at least 5 coating plants, currently operating, Kodak, Ilford, Agfa-Gaevert, Fuji and somewhere in China. The biggest produced runs are not still film, it's colour movie print film, used to convert MP negatives to positives for projection. Film Distributors are moving from analog to digital. That would mean at least one of those plants will become surplus. Kodak seems to be in the biggest financial mess, so that one is most likely to close.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  6. #36
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    Paul, even though analog MP is in a decline, the analog photo division at EK is not in a financial mess. In fact, they are still more or less, supporting the rest of EK for the time being. If they are spun off as a result of the bankruptcy then they would probably be on a par with Ilford or better.

    As for Ilford coating color film or apper? They do not have the trained staff nor do they have any suitable equipment at their plant at this time (AFAIK). I do know that Simon Galley has been emphatic about the fact that Ilford will NOT do color.

    PE

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Paul, even though analog MP is in a decline, the analog photo division at EK is not in a financial mess. In fact, they are still more or less, supporting the rest of EK for the time being. If they are spun off as a result of the bankruptcy then they would probably be on a par with Ilford or better.

    As for Ilford coating color film or apper? They do not have the trained staff nor do they have any suitable equipment at their plant at this time (AFAIK). I do know that Simon Galley has been emphatic about the fact that Ilford will NOT do color.

    PE

    I realise that analog is what is keeping Kodak afloat, much of what is keeping that afloat is the fact Hollywood has up until now, used most of the massive amounts of production capacity, to make analog prints. Many productions now are shot on film, scanned, a lot of the editing and special effects are added digitally, it's then printed onto negative film, processed and that is used to produce the prints. Film distributors spend a lot of money producing those prints and shipping them around. not only can they be fairly heavy, but they need secure shipping, which is also expensive. With digital, you can dump the entire feature onto a DVD size disc, drop it into a padded envelop pop that into a flat rate FedEx mailer, and ring up FedEx to pick it up and deliver it. Especially if it's in an encrypted format, with a key-ring type encryption, where you use one key to encrypt, another to decrypt.

    I think Kodak should have gone down the same road Ilford did, concentrate on it's core business of analog photography. They got into consumer digital after other companies already owned the market, and like many other computer products, if your not the latest and greatest your dead meat. Kodak has or at least had enough smart people at the R&D level that they could have produced a lower volume film production process, especially after a decade of shrinking market.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  8. #38
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    Paul;

    You have missed one tiny point.

    All of these analog negatives are now being printed onto the new Kodak archival print film for storage, or they are being printed as separation B&W negatives or positives for storage. Hollywood is realizing that digital copies deteriorate much faster than analog originals and the duplication and storage costs of digital are almost 10X higher than for analog.

    PE

  9. #39
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    It's not so many years ago that Ilford were selling colour films in the UK, the films were made for them by Sakura/Konica, I have a roll of E6 Ilfochrome that never got processed.

    They'd hoped to build up sales to a point where it was worth their while re-entering the market with their own films, there's a space on the Mobberley site that was earmarked for a possible colour coating facility.

    Last time I was in Istanbul which was just under 3 years ago I saw Ilford colour films (C41) on the shelf of the Turkish Ilford importer/distributor, I should have bought a roll but was in a hurry and on my way to the nearby stockist of Ilford LF film (which was just out of date - but OK).

    Ilford have some chemists with Colour experience, you only need to look at Patents held by directors, and despite the Swiss arm now being seperate there's still links at some levels. So while they might not want to make colour materials they have the capability.

    Ian

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Paul;

    You have missed one tiny point.

    All of these analog negatives are now being printed onto the new Kodak archival print film for storage, or they are being printed as separation B&W negatives or positives for storage. Hollywood is realizing that digital copies deteriorate much faster than analog originals and the duplication and storage costs of digital are almost 10X higher than for analog.

    PE
    But, even if your do print everything onto archival film, heck I would like to print MY digital images onto archival film for storage, that's one copy, versus the 300 copies needed for analog MP projection.

    I wonder if a good business for Kodak, you burn a CD of digital images, ship it off to Kodak, they put them onto the archival print film, and send you back a set of slides. Even at $1 per image, it would be reasonable. Especially if you have images you don't want to lose. I think for still images, positives that are mounted are safest, in that a stack of images would not touch each other.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

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