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  1. #31
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    Well, I cannot explain the result you are getting Red Sun. Sorry.

    If I assume that the scan you posted is properly processed in fresh chemistry, then I would say that the paper was defective.

    If I assume what Paul says about lasers, I still have to assume that the blue dye washes out, as it is designed to do.

    All of this leaves me without the ability to give you an answer. Sorry.

    Now, to answer the OT post by RPC, well, you can get an answer by assuming that the paper is balanced so that the orange of the negative is "neutral" to it. In fact, paper is tungsten balanced + "negative orange" and then you still have to add about 50R to most enlargers to get a good print. This is all done to avoid your having to use cyan filtration. Using 3 colors (C/M/Y) is just too confusing.

    Another way to look at it though is to say that the paper is designed to ignore the mask.

    PE

  2. #32

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    I think here we go circles. Her I'll try one time, trying to get it clear.

    This is Fuji CA Super C color paper. Below is a piece of new paper.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I cut the same piece of the paper and put it under sink faucet. No chemical at all:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You can see clearly that the blue/cyan coating was washed away. This paper never sees chemicals.

    I cut the same paper into strips and printed 1/2 of them with 18% grey negative. Below are two of them I printed:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The scanner did not do a very good job here. 1/2 of the strips were exposed and the 1/2 were not exposed. After processing, the 1/2 un-exposed strips should be white. The top strip is old and the white paper is white. But the newer (lower, 2nd) strip shows a light blue/cyan color. You probably can't tell from the scan, but I can see clearly with the actual strips. It is the same color tone with the original new paper. This is the same top blue/cyan coating that did not get washed away.

    The paper is fine. No problem with it.
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
    You can see clearly that the blue/cyan coating was washed away. This paper never sees chemicals.
    Sigh. It's all a matter of semantics: washed AWAY - yes, washed OFF, no. The dye is in one (or more) gel layers on the paper and is washed OUT of the gel layer(s), leaving the gel layer(s) behind.

  4. #34
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    If you run the second strip under the faucet, does the light cyan color go away? If so, does it come back when it is dried? I think you are making a connection between the color of the unprocessed paper and the cyan cast of the test strip where there isn't any. They are coincidental and unrelated.
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  5. #35
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    If the scans are reasonably accurate in density, then please note the Dmax of the top strip and compare it to the Dmax of the bottom strip. The bottom strip is considerably more dense than the top strip indicating over development may be the problem.

    Fuji did introduce CA type II papers in 2006, and they claim that the new papers develop more rapidly. They have supposedly released a new RA developer for this paper. IDK if this is the case, but I do think that the development (Dmax and Dmin) are different in the two strips.

    Check time and temperature, and also check the contrast of the image you get.

    PE

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
    If you run the second strip under the faucet, does the light cyan color go away? If so, does it come back when it is dried? I think you are making a connection between the color of the unprocessed paper and the cyan cast of the test strip where there isn't any. They are coincidental and unrelated.
    I have been always talking about the blue/cyan top coating, as seen in the second picture. I think it is in the top protective layer.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    For the unprocessed paper, I believe the color can be completely washed out in rinse water (as seen in the 2nd picture). For the white part of the test strip, I can wash out the blue/cyan color with rinse water and the cover won't come back.

    I believe this color has nothing to do with the image forming dye....

    This paper color is documented in Fuji's document, as the Raw Material Color of the paper.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #37

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    I've never have a problem. The blue dye on the Fuji paper washes out completely for me during an
    initial prerinse of less than a minute in the drum. This is distinct from the image-forming dyes which
    remain behind after full processing. I don't know what it's function is. The difference between the latest Fuji papers which are digitally "optimized" and the previous Super C paper is only about 5cc's of G sensitivity. Anwyay, the previous paper also was blue in its unprocessed state. Current green
    laser diodes are actually filtered, so relatively weak. True green diodes are coming on the market but
    are relatively expensive. I'm skeptical that the blue color of fresh paper is related to this at all.
    An interesting question, but I've totally ignored it because it has no impact whatsoever on my ordinary practical workflow.

  8. #38

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    Yes, finally someone can speak with his/her own experience of using Fuji paper.

    I had not had any problem with this until my last batch. The blue/cyan color messed up my color calibration. I do not know why this happened this time. I did cut another part of the roll paper, but I do not think it makes any difference with the same roll of paper. But at least I learnt not to skip the final rinse even with test strips.

    I believe this blue/cyan color has something to do with optic/digital exposure.... Of course you get the added benefit of knowing where the emulsion side is.
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  9. #39
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    Read my previous post and look at the scanned Dmax values of the old and new paper.

    I've also explained the reason behind the blue color. It is there to adjust speed and to sharpen the image. It washes out. Nothing washes off! The blue color of processed paper that Red Sun is seeing is not related to the blue dye in the paper that washes out! It is probably fog of some sort.

    If you fully process a sheet of unexposed paper, and just blix a sheet of unexposed paper, then if they differ in blue color (or cyan), then it is fog. If they do not differ in color, then it is indeed retained blue dye, and this indicates some sort of defect in the paper or process.

    PE

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
    For the unprocessed paper, I believe the color can be completely washed out in rinse water
    YES - That's what I have been saying

    Quote Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
    I believe this color has nothing to do with the image forming dye....
    YES - Again, that's what I have been saying (But as PE has noted, it is possible that bad paper or processing chemicals might create fog that IS a result of the image dye forming couplers.)
    Last edited by Prof_Pixel; 12-13-2012 at 02:10 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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