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  1. #21
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I offer to show results of my experiments with color developer dilution

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
    The time/temp was obviously a finger error. You must have missed my response to another poster.

    Today I looked at many C-41 chemistries, Unicolor powdered, Arista (Unicolor liquid I figured out), Rollei, Tetenal Rapid, and (hold on, rodeo fans) Flexicolor. Holy moly. What a mish mosh.

    What Flexicolor products are you using and where are you getting them from? And how are you calculating dilution and rolls per quart/liter?

    The closest thing I can see for an amateur user are the Flexicolor SM F1 an F2 kits. With lots of inter-googling I did find that one kit of F1 and F2 would process 240 (??) 24 exposure rolls. Since each kit seems to be available for $30-40, this would be outstanding on a cost per roll basis.

    What say you?
    Wait you are saying there are C-41 kits that let you prices over 200 rolls for $30-$40??? Am I reading that right?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #22
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Wait you are saying there are C-41 kits that let you prices over 200 rolls for $30-$40??? Am I reading that right?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    If you have the matching mini-lab, they will.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #23
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I offer to show results of my experiments with color developer dilution

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    If you have the matching mini-lab, they will.
    OH I see... Blah.... Sucks... Stupid Paterson... Haha


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #24
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I should add that it is theoretically possible to reverse engineer the Flexicolor SM kits to permit more manual processing - but you would most likely need to cannibalize a relatively modern mini-lab for the various connectors and automatic dispensing machinery.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #25
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I offer to show results of my experiments with color developer dilution

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    I should add that it is theoretically possible to reverse engineer the Flexicolor SM kits to permit more manual processing - but you would most likely need to cannibalize a relatively modern mini-lab for the various connectors and automatic dispensing machinery.
    Well it's not that I WANT manual processing, I mean C-41 was designed not to have to be manually processed and made for machines... But I can't afford a whole process machine that's crazy, I don't know how much they would be for 120 film but I can't imagine it's in my price range...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #26
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    Paul Verizzo (and others): I already stated that I use Kodak Flexicolor developer and I get if from PDISUPPLY.COM in Rochester, NY. (KF12-1532753 currently is listed at $131.73). Many here have expressed wonder at how they could get their hands on C-41 developer and not be bankrupted in the process. That causes me to think...

    I get the 25 gallon size for less than $200 shipped to Philadelphia. Now, as we all know now, that translates into 375 US gallons (15 X 25 gal) of working solution. That's about 50 cents per US gallon of my working solution developer. That's about 16 36 exp rolls of film developed for 50 cents TOTAL. That's about 3 US cents per 36 exposure roll. Expensive??? Not even frugal David thinks so.

    Now, 'you all', maybe the time has come to change from being mere 'avatars of the web' and start to actually get to know one another as real, not virtual, people. I know that this will cause great pain, consternation, and angst because that means actually having to expose your vulnerabilities out into the open, instead of refraining by employing the 'safer' way that being virtually anonymous affords and gives the most comfort. This is the way people USED to act way back when I was in my twenties. No web, no anonymity. Much to gain in the process. Why?

    The 25 gallon size is easily transportable by one person. It's not that heavy. Can you imagine how light 1/25th of that kit would be?

    $200 devided by 25 gallons is $8 per 'Kodak' gallon or $8 per fifteen 'David Lyga working solution' gallons. That's a lot of developer, folks. Can no one envision 25 of you getting together and dividing a kit and having all this developer to play with? (But you cannot do this if you insist upon remaining avatars.) The real problem here is getting tiny containers to divide it all and maybe there would be other glitches as well. But... you can see that, costwise, the ridiculous amount of money saved would be formidible. Then stop bath and fixer and potassium ferricyanide (or proprietary blixes).

    I have had a few people already contact me privately (david33x@yahoo.com or 215.569.4949). I certainly would not cherish the responsibility of handling all this, and I could not, actually, given the fact that my WHOLE living space is 12 feet by 12 feet (your garage!), but when you figure how cheaply this could be done you almost want to forego the 'avatar' life permanently! Think about this. It is not as impossible as the 'tech based', 'text-only, no voice' culture dictates that it should be. - David Lyga
    Last edited by David Lyga; 01-02-2013 at 08:54 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Wait you are saying there are C-41 kits that let you prices over 200 rolls for $30-$40??? Am I reading that right?
    I got that figure from http://www.uniquedirect.com/e/index....m-1173319.html

    $30 per module, $23.50 each for two or more. Plus shipping, of course. Weight is given at ten pounds, so I would estimate the liquid weight as four pounds each bottle, i.e., two quarts. The modules are also on eBay for about $30 with shipping.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    I should add that it is theoretically possible to reverse engineer the Flexicolor SM kits to permit more manual processing - but you would most likely need to cannibalize a relatively modern mini-lab for the various connectors and automatic dispensing machinery.
    Why? It's just chemicals. The only thing (I think!) one needs to get hold of or figure out is the dilution ratio. And the only one that is super critical would be the developer.

  9. #29
    wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Well it's not that I WANT manual processing, I mean C-41 was designed not to have to be manually processed and made for machines... But I can't afford a whole process machine that's crazy, I don't know how much they would be for 120 film but I can't imagine it's in my price range...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    They are probably a lot cheaper then you might think, especially now that film processing isn't as popular as it was even a decade ago.... The problem might be getting the required power into your house, especially in North America where 2 phase is a lot more popular for residential use, then 3 phase which is more popular for commercial and industrial use.... Mind you, if you ring up your utility provider and they have the right lines in place, they will provide whatever you like, providing your willing to pay for it....
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  10. #30

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    Cost per roll, no 25 gallon purchase necessary.

    I use a two reel plastic developing tank, I prefer it to my SS ones. With the reels in place, it takes 650 ml of water to cover them. As SS takes take far less liquid, any calculated costs would be that much less than my hog.

    Using David's 1:15 ratio, that's 43.3 ml of stock C-41 developer to seed it with.

    One liter of stock developer will give 23 loads, or 46 rolls of film.

    Not including shipping, one could use the 500ml Rollei/Compard/Maco kit and it works out at $1.05 per roll.

    A Unicolor 1 liter lit checks in at 41 cents, the two liter would be 36 cents.

    Even the expensive ($40) Tetenal 1 liter is only 87 cents, the inexpensive-per-liter 5L kit works out to 33 cents.

    Since it will cost $5 or more to either mail or drive film to a develop only facility, it's all good!

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