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  1. #41
    Athiril's Avatar
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    The starter should also contain the iodide.

  2. #42

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    it does, but far below notifiable amounts...

    If you mix a C41 developer from a replenisher and a "Starter" solution, the replenisher itself will be free of iodide, all needed iodide (1.2mg/liter) comes from the starter.
    So calculating it it down a whole liter of ”FLEXICOLOR Entwickler Starter CAT 1953009” contains only about 86mg of iodide. (1000/14)*1.2=85.7mg

    This should be 0.0086 % in in weight...

    (my german Flexicolor edition says 860ml of replenisher, 14 ml of starter and additional 126ml water give one liler working solution, these amounts may vary for other distributions...)

    Regards Stefan

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefan4u View Post

    (my german Flexicolor edition says 860ml of replenisher, 14 ml of starter and additional 126ml water give one liler working solution, these amounts may vary for other distributions...)

    Regards Stefan

    This is exactly the reason a replenisher is not equal to a working solution. The dilution alone is significant. Without it the replenish will be too hot. I used a replenisher as a working developer before and it ruined my roll of negative. The image was too dense (over development) and the colors were poor.

  4. #44

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    Chapeau for your work, David! This has to be said!

    Anyway,sometimes I have the impression that “this replenisher and starter” issue is somehow misunderstood and easily mixed up with other inconsistencies that like to happen in hobbyist cellars, at least in mine…

    In commercial processing, a fresh working solution is only made once, if the machine is filled the first time (in general). From the moment a film is/was processed only a small amount of replenisher is added to the tank solution to maintain/control its chemical activity. Depending on the subsystem it can be something like 70ml, 45ml or 22ml for each Film 135-24. Because of pH drop during development and accumulation of restrainers as well consumption of developer and preservatives this replenishing solution is slightly different. The ph is more alkaline, sulfite, hydroxylamine sulfate and CD4 are about 15-20% increased, bromide level is only about 1/3 to half, iodide is absent at all, etc. The absolute values are depending on the subsystem (Brand, High rate, low rep. rate etc)

    So the replenisher has different composition, is quite hot and needs the addition of the starter to be converted in proper tank solution. From then on only replenisher is needed in commercial processing. Tank solution is that what hobbyists need / label as developer.

    Bottom line: If using a commercial developer replenisher that requires starter to get transformed in to seasoned tank solution, it will be better to use it in the right proportion, if the primary target is a negative in specs in a non replenished development cycle (Assuming agitation, times and temperatures are in specs too). For experimental / fun everything else can be done… I’m frugal my own way by home brewing that stuff…

    Regards stefan
    Last edited by stefan4u; 01-14-2013 at 07:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #45

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    Question for David

    Poking around APUG further, I see older posts where you play with a 1+9 dilution. But here you are talking 1+14. Why the change? The cost, which I've gathered is a matter of pride with you, is virtually inconsequential. Ummmm.... 50 cents a roll vs. 30?}

    I gotta tell you, friend, I don't get that a man lives in less than a garage space but buys chemistry in 25 gallon sizes. (Full disclosure: I lived in a 420 s.f. shack for six years. But I also had external storage!) But the bottom line is that I really, really respect and giggle at your iconoclastism!

    Carrry on!

  6. #46
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    Sorry for the monumental delay, Paul...

    Fact is, dear Paul Verizzo, I really am a fluke. Yes, I live in a 12 ft X 12 ft efficiency and have a 25 gallon size in here. It is only about one gallon of liquid, by the way! I mix as I need and I keep the conponents airtight in PET plastic with marbles (I guess that where my marbles went!)

    At the beginning I was using 1 + 19 and that worked but gave a bit too low contrast to suit. Then I went through a period that punchy colors were 'best', thus the 1 + 9. Now, I have come down to reality and the 1 + 14 I find best.

    Yes, Paul, I have external storage: two separate self-storage units.

    Yes, these things really are true about me. Why be a phony? I am what I am, good and bad, and more than a bit crazy, I guess. But I do sleep well and have no real feelings of guilt with how I treat people. Sometimes that is worth more than money. Peace begins with the inner stuff. Thank you for your enquiry. - David Lyga
    Last edited by David Lyga; 01-28-2013 at 04:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    Yes, these things really are true about me. Why be a phony? I am what I am, good and bad, and more than a bit crazy, I guess. But I do sleep well and have no real feelings of guilt with how I treat people. Sometimes that is worth more than money. Peace begins with the inner stuff. Thank you for your enquiry.
    Damn straight!

    By the way: I'm so glad to finally see what your prints look like! They're great. Thanks for sharing your work with us.

  8. #48
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    In fairness, 'keyof night', it is easier for me to be open because I have no butts to kiss or anything to prove. - David lyga

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