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  1. #21
    RPC
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    I think that that is not necessarily the case RPC.

    Look, if you use your working solution 'one shot', there is a built-in consistency there. The TIME and TEMP needed will be consistent for each film because EACH FILM gets its 'new' developer.

    Any necessary restrainer has already been added to the developer by the manufacturer. I have NO problems with fresh film yielding absolutely NO FOG and I use NO starter with my 1+14 dilution (see my recent 'dilution' thread). In fact, the film I normally use 'expired' in 1998 and kept cold: Fuji Super G+ 100. - David Lyga
    As I said, the bromide acts as a restrainer and the starter containing bromide has a restraining effect that is lacking in the replenisher. Straight developer mix would already have the restrainer in it. I inferred from cbphoto's post that the trebla kit was replenisher and called for starter. If it is straight developer then it would require no starter.

    In your altered-from-normal process, if you are not getting fog and you are using replenisher, it could be because your developer is soft-working enough that fog doesn't form, similar to developers D-76 and D-23 not requiring restrainer due to them being soft-working.

    But if using replenisher as working solution in the normal manner, I believe leaving the starter out would result in fog or other problems.
    Last edited by RPC; 01-03-2013 at 11:46 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22
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    Well, is 'Flexicolor' developer or replenisher?

    Probably both, and geared to 'normal' results with negatives. True, normally, replenishers do not have to have restrainer because they are put into solutions already containing bromide (from the film already developed). Actually, I do not know if there is ANY bromide already in the Flexicolor developer but it works fine without starter and that is the main focus here. - David Lyga
    Last edited by David Lyga; 01-03-2013 at 04:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #23

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    I read on an old APUG thread that the Trebla kit uses a replenisher, and you need to buy the $4 starter separately. I did find some, so we'll see what the instructions say when it all actually gets here next week.
    Last edited by cbphoto; 01-03-2013 at 05:55 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #24
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    Flexicolor can be either Developer or Replenisher and the packages are labeled as such.

    PE

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    Actually, I do not know if there is ANY bromide already in the Flexicolor developer but it works fine without starter and that is the main focus here. - David Lyga
    I tried Kodak replenisher without starter before. It was too hot. It rendered colors that were not natural to my eyes and there was evidence of over development. By looking at the Kodak instruction to prepare working solution from replenisher it explains by itself why the soup was too hot. The replenisher is diluted a bit by adding the starter and the water to become a working developer. Without the proper dilution it is too hot. I am not sure what will happen by diluting with water rather than with the starter and water.

    I am convinced that replenisher is replenisher. It is not the same as a working developer. Starter is cheap and there is plenty of availability.

  6. #26

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    So the Trebla kit and starter showed up right now (good UPS shipping sync, as they came from different companies). The instructions do call for the starter, and also to make a stock replenisher which is then diluted with starter to make a working solution. Is it safe/advisable to just mix working solution right from the concentrates? I do not have a 10L container!

    And has anyone done the math on mixing it that way, so I don't have to suffer through it?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Photo Jan 07, 5 40 52 PM.jpg  

  7. #27
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    I can say this. C41 developer needs starter, but the RA-RT replenisher for RA4 processing does not.

    PE

  8. #28

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    Why not just use this Flexicolor SM kit?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/271108192545...84.m1438.l2649

    Using the above, that's $6.40/liter, broken down into nice 2L batches for you.

    If you google the kodak part number, there are vendors selling this for $55 and more.

    Am I missing something?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Verizzo View Post
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/271108192545...84.m1438.l2649

    Using the above, that's $6.40/liter, broken down into nice 2L batches for you.

    If you google the kodak part number, there are vendors selling this for $55 and more.

    Am I missing something?
    The link you posted is developer only, so you still need to drop about another $130 on other components. That's plan B, as I posted about before, but the Trebla kit is significantly less expensive. The SM tank components work out to about $190 for 10L, and the equivalent Trebla is about $95 with shipping. Since the Trebla is discontinued now, the SM will be the next setup I buy, most likely.
    Last edited by cbphoto; 01-07-2013 at 09:32 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbphoto View Post
    The link you posted is developer only, so you still need to drop about another $130 on other components. That's plan B, as I posted about before, but the Trebla kit is significantly less expensive. The SM tank components work out to about $190 for 10L, and the equivalent Trebla is about $95 with shipping. Since the Trebla is discontinued now, the SM will be the next setup I buy, most likely.
    Yes, I was looking at developer only.

    The other components are pretty cheap and/or mix yourself. Fixer, any kind/brand will do, even old "hypo" based ones. Bleach, probably the most difficult to put together and use with certainty. IIRC, PE has said that the modern ferric EDTA bleaches are used to reduced pollution, especially with the amounts of chemicals labs use. The old ferricyanide bleaches work fine and in home use is no threat to the environment. The Kodak Final Rinse, I can't speak to. MSDS here: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/ms...eplenisher.pdf

    I appears that all of the homebrew kits use hexamine for the "stabilizer." Another perhaps defective memory nod to PE, but it is not a dye stabilizer like way back, but something to prevent organic nasties from developing - no pun intended - in the dye. I have just completed some research on readily available hexamine and will post soon.

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