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  1. #51
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Yeah, I see what you mean. I get ambiguous answers from my sources.

    Do what works!

    PE

  2. #52
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The current ECN and ECP go through the same process.
    If so, why does the industry still offer (list) both chemistries ranges?

  3. #53
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    It is because the information that I was given was apparently wrong and thus I was wrong. Either that or I misunderstood someone, or - sigh - I was just plain wrong.

    Apologies to all!

    My bad.

    PE

  4. #54
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    Okay round 2, modified formula different film.

    Only change is the addition of 280mg/L of Sodium Thiocyanate (still think mine needs to be dried out a bit) to Bath A (Bath A and B were kept from previous go).

    This time with fresh Kodak Gold 100 from B&H. One half was cut and run through a frontier C-41 to get as close to 'everyday C-41' as possible, other was the split bath (3m 15s A + 6ms B). 24 Colour Patch was shot on both at box speeds.

    ColourChecker shots balanced with the 4th grey patch (4th darkest), and contrast matched as close as possible so any difference in the colour patches between the two will give more information on the colour.

    Also going to use the Xrite software to create a profile for the C-41 and split-bath shots using the colour chart, so I can preview the difference between uncorrected and corrected colour, and see which colour patches shift the most (the 'most incorrect').


    Scanning now, will edit and start including images after lunch break, I need to do a round about way of this.

    Here are some initial results (will get some actual images to look at up later)
    (I'm going to need to shoot a chart much closer up and redo this i think)
    C-41 Gold @ 100


    Split-Bath #2 Gold @ 100


    Split-Bath #2 Gold @ 400
    Last edited by Athiril; 02-27-2013 at 12:37 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #55
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    Initial Observations between the C-41 vs CD-2 split bath test chart.. test chart colours are visibly more saturated from the split-bath when grey scale and contrast are otherwise equal.

    Sorry for delays.. quick update.

    All the charts when going through analysis were treated the same.. set white, black, and grey points, so that their relative differences minus balance can be seen.

    The Gold 100 in #2 shot @ 800 indoors (haven't provided the measurements for this one yet)





    1600 (different colour balance to above by the looks, just picking off the grey scale) - this is the point where skin tones get a larger error (colour points 1 and 2)






    Images for the Charts in the previous post (I didn't try fiddling/matching these, just picking grey off the colour chart)

    C-41 100




    Split Bath #2 100




    Split Bath #2 400

    Last edited by Athiril; 02-27-2013 at 09:41 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #56
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    Max 10 images reached above





    Here is a scene from either

    C-41, Gold 100 @ 100


    Split-Bath #2, Gold 100 @ 100




    If you tried to print them with the same exposure and balance, you might get something like this (top C-41)



    There are a couple of issues with the chart analysis.. the large amount of grain.. and the charts need to be pre-balanced, so the accuracy of the pre-balance putting it however close to the ideal input chart etc (though they're all done in the same method). So that puts the absolute measuremed error accuracy into question, but at least shows relative differences.
    Last edited by Athiril; 02-27-2013 at 11:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #57
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    One is tungsten and the other is daylight?

    Looks like the cars are paring on the wrong side of the street.

    PE

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    One is tungsten and the other is daylight?

    Looks like the cars are paring on the wrong side of the street.

    PE
    Images were taken in Australia

    The bottom one is the +2 'push' 400 chart (which i thought was the best out of the split bath charts) which should be shown somewhere above.

    Except in that case I used the same colour balancing settings as for the gold 100, showing it would have yo be printed significantly differently in the dark room then you would normally print C-41 film. Different filtration and exposure.

    If you are able to balance the grey scale then theoretically it should print well. Key word is if. I should shoot a grey patch up and down and plot curves of this process vs C-41 process of the same film.

    But the next roll I want to try is Superia 800 at night and see what extreme it is useful at.

    It may very well simply be outside the range of filtration available to be able to make a neutral balance print in the dark room even though technically the colour is serviceable when the grey scale is neutral, as the print material isn't matched to it.

    Unless one wants to fiddle with a print developer (perhaps a CD-3 split bath for the ultimate in laziness? ) but that's a can of worms I don't wish to open.

    Or perhaps a blue enlarging light or 80A in the filtration path to give you more control of blue/yellow.

  9. #59
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    Ok, this is all very cool. I don't understand it all, but it does seem that a divided C-41, while not perfect, is interesting.

    Allow me to ask the related question of divided developers: does the formula here result in working solution longevity similar to Diafine? Because it is divided, does it last "forever"?

  10. #60
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    Dan, very fine results and yes, I did know you were in AU. It was late at night here as you can see, and I wanted to kid you rather than post a long answer.

    I think that you have the problems ironed out. Just watch for the contrast difference. ECN is about 0.5 and regular C41 films run from 0.6 (pro films) to 0.75 (consumer films), and thus the color print materials and scanners are fooled by thinking that all negative films are C41.

    As for divided developer keeping, that remains to be seen. CDs oxidize more rapidly and are trickier to stabilize. You can make a B&W concentrate that lasts years, but CD kits are known to go bad rather quickly, even as a 3 part kit.

    PE

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