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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck94022 View Post
    Ha, Chan Tran, for that you need a Jobo! Or a Sidekick.

    Seriously though, I think your best bet is engineering something that keeps trays at temp for printing. Drums add all kinds of other variables, like rotation control, for example. Going there, I'd just buy a Jobo (which I used to own).
    but a Jobo is very expensive.

  2. #42
    AnselAdamsX's Avatar
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    FWIW there is a PID library for arduino http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PIDLibrary

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chan Tran View Post
    but a Jobo is very expensive.
    Well, Chan, if you are serious about using a roller drum, I would suggest that you build the tank to the dimensions you require, then build a platform so that the rollers sit at a depth sufficient to roll the drum through the hot water, just as a Jobo's bath does. If you have seen/used a Jobo, you know that the drum isn't fully immersed in the water. Instead, the machine holds one side of it in the water, and rolls it in this little hot puddle. You could create yourself a little structure like this yourself, suspended above or within a water tank. I'm not doing rotational processing, so I've left this as an exercise for other creative users.

  4. #44

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    "I tried the DIY/cheap way out and it was actually more expensive to go that route with buying all the parts and the time involved. "

    Absolutely. But sooo much fun.

    "Well, Chan, if you are serious about using a roller drum..........."

    That is the route that I am taking now. I've just done some initial testing with SS reels and tanks on a Unicolor drum roller. Results are acceptable as far as even development. I have to fine-tune rotation speed mind you, and / or development time.

    To head off the "get a Jobo" comments, I do have an ATL. It just isn't cut out for EFFECIENT volume processing. I have at least 10 SS tanks that I use when I do my processing marathons.

    I plan to rig up a couple rollers and DC motors into a wide wallpaper trough, using my "maguyvered" tempering bath controller to keep my chemistry and tank at process temperature.

    I have way too much time on my hands. Heh.

  5. #45

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    A fairly cheap alternative is a fish aquarium. You can get recirculating water filter/heaters for them that can be cranked up to the proper temperature. Usually they are a bit too deep, so you have to find some sort of a filler or platform to put the bottles on.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nworth View Post
    A fairly cheap alternative is a fish aquarium. You can get recirculating water filter/heaters for them that can be cranked up to the proper temperature. Usually they are a bit too deep, so you have to find some sort of a filler or platform to put the bottles on.
    I'd wager that my plastic tub was a lot cheaper (and lighter) and not nearly as deep as a fish aquarium! And the styrofoam container I used as an outer insulator was free.

    In my case, the water pump was for either a large aquarium or a water fountain. The aquarium heaters have the issues discussed (and worked around) above. Personally, I think if you use a PID (which is accurate to .1 degree C) you're better off using a stronger heating element. But that's a personal preference. I have no idea how accurate the controller is in an aquarium heater, but I doubt it is as accurate as a PID controller. But it is probably good enough.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck94022 View Post
    I'd wager that my plastic tub was a lot cheaper (and lighter) and not nearly as deep as a fish aquarium! And the styrofoam container I used as an outer insulator was free.

    In my case, the water pump was for either a large aquarium or a water fountain. The aquarium heaters have the issues discussed (and worked around) above. Personally, I think if you use a PID (which is accurate to .1 degree C) you're better off using a stronger heating element. But that's a personal preference. I have no idea how accurate the controller is in an aquarium heater, but I doubt it is as accurate as a PID controller. But it is probably good enough.
    You're probably right. I've used a variation of this myself. The tub I had had a motor to keep the water circulating (avoiding hot and cold spots), and I was able to use a simple, cheap immersible fish tank heater to control the temperature. Proportional controllers are nice, but fairly expensive. Adjustment of things like fish tank heaters can be tedious, but once adjusted they stay set quite well, and I've found them to be quite adequate.

  8. #48

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    Good idea. I am going to get a Jobo drum and then somehow putting 2 roller rods under the water. The rods need not be driven just free rotating. Putting the drum on top of them and then a motor driven rubber roller pushing down on the drum would drive it.

  9. #49

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    I just finished my first 2 rolls of C-41 in my home made setup. The 200 watt heater seems to be undersized for my setup, it seems that there will be a 300 watt sometime in the future. For right now though, it works ok. Without anything in the container, I can get the water up to 102(F), but as soon as I put my chems in to warm up, the temp dropped 6 degrees and stayed there. So I put the chems in the bathroom sink filled with very hot water to warm them up. Once warm and put in the bath, they held just fine and the heater was able to keep the temperature stable during developing.

    As soon as the negs are dry, I'll scan them and post the link for some critiques.

  10. #50
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    This is what I use:

    1. Blueline 250w titanium heater element (http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/heaters/).
    2. Blueline temperature controller (http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/heaters/).
    3. Koralia Pico Evolution Evo-Mag 300 GPH Nano Aquarium Pump (bunch of ebay sources).
    4. Coleman 28qt cooler I picked up at Bevmo for beer during get-togethers.
    5. 3 1L accordion containers for FD, CD, BX or 2 1L accordion containers for CD, BX (Freestyle).
    6. A couple small bricks I picked up from Home Depot to keep the containers from floating around.

    I bought the heater+controller for 95$ as a combo deal on eBay, the pump for 20$, and the Coleman for 20-30$ but it's cost was of course amortized against it's intended use: beer.

    The reason I specifically went for a titanium element and an external controller rather than an all in one cheapo-unit is that the former usually go beyond 100F (even if unsafe for fish) just by design. One is able to set temps of up to 110F if I remember correctly. The controller itself uses an external probe and is basically a fancy relay for the heater itself. The pump you just plug in. I fill the Coleman up with 90F+ water from the sink, turn the controller on to 37-38C, place my 1L accordion containers containing FD, CD, BX (E-6) or CD, BX (C-41) and let it stabilize for 20-30 minutes. I don't bother heating the stab for either processes. The bricks I just submerge and wedge against the containers to stop them from floating or moving around.

    Heating element, pump, probe in water:




    External controller:




    My coveted mercury-based Kodak Process Thermometer:




    2-stage C-41 setup:




    First roll of Astia (E-6) I developed with the setup:




    Another roll of Astia (this one in Polyester fold-flaps, so there's reflection glare):




    Nothing beat the moment I pulled the slides out of the tank and saw such jeweled color against the light. It was better than the first time developing black and white, honestly. Recently I picked up a Phototherm bath but haven't used it for any development other than testing that it worked properly. It's cost was around the same aggregate cost for the ghetto-route, but I can tell the temperature stabilization is more precise and the built in pump is nice. It's entirely self-contained and well-designed but I don't think it'll make a difference in the final product (just less hassle).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0972_1024.jpg   IMG_0974_1024.jpg   IMG_0976_1024.jpg   IMG_1467.jpg   IMG_1007_1024.jpg  

    image-1.jpg  
    Last edited by clayne; 06-12-2013 at 08:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

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