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  1. #1
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Confusion over Bleaches, Fixes, Stabilizer for C-41 vs ECN-2 vs E-6

    So I'm at the "mixing my own chems" stage, and I have a little confusion over the different bleaches, fixers and stabilizer baths that exist.

    I've thus far only worked with blix's that were Pre-made kits from Arista / jobo / etc

    I do know that BLEACH is not Clorox... But that's about all I know.

    I also THINK there is a difference between bleach for E-6 and bleach for C-41 and the old guys never get confused even though they aren't labeled "E-6 Bleach" but to those of us newer to the game, it's really confusing.

    Also, is the ECN-2 bleach different from the C-41 bleach even though they are both color negative film?

    All these questions also apply to the fixers.

    In addition, I know that a stabilizer is recommended for E-6 (which I didn't know previously and didn't SEEM to come in the kits) does it also need to be done in the C-41 and ECN-2 as an additional end bath?

    I'm OK with buying the Pre-made stuff for now, I don't do replenishment though, so buying a 5 gallon bottle of ready to use bleach / fixer that I'll never get through isn't my favorite choice, so I'm open to learning mixing formulas but only official ones if possible as I've seen some pretty bad "I made this up myself" versions out there that left chunks on the film haha. Wish PE could just release all the formulas already haha

    I don't have a processor and do it all in my sink, so keep that in mind too.

    Thanks for any and all guidance. APUG for the win!


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #2
    Kevin Caulfield's Avatar
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    Buy a kit and start from there. Then you get the right chemistry to start with. After that you can experiment.

  3. #3
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Caulfield View Post
    Buy a kit and start from there. Then you get the right chemistry to start with. After that you can experiment.
    There are no kits in the USA available that have bleach and fix that aren't 5 gallon batches for large processor labs... That's why I'm doing this...

    EDIT: that also doesn't help me understand the difference between the different versions of bleach/fix since they don't list the chemicals inside just "this is the bleach bottle you use" but that doesn't give me knowledge...

    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #4
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I do know that BLEACH is not Clorox... But that's about all I know.
    My recommendation is you get a firm grasp of what happens in color processing. There are many resources available online, and Haist's books on photographic processes have a great chapter about this topic. Unless you fully understand how C41 and E6 work, at least what each bath is supposed to do in these processes, you won't be able to fine tune the process to your needs, neither would you be able to address poor processing results.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I also THINK there is a difference between bleach for E-6 and bleach for C-41 and the old guys never get confused even though they aren't labeled "E-6 Bleach" but to those of us newer to the game, it's really confusing.
    If you look at color processes, you will see roughly three types of bleach:
    1. Ferricyanide bleaches (no BLIXes! ), like in ECN-2, is the strongest bleach. Although many home brewers use them successfully for E6 and C41, these two processes are neither specified nor tested for Ferricyanide bleach and YMMV.
    2. Ammonium Ferric EDTA bleaches/BLIXes use the weakest bleach compound but work well for C41 and E6, and most kits that come with BLIXes use this compound.
    3. Ammonium Ferric PDTA bleaches (no BLIXes! ) come with several professional C41 kits and are not officially blessed by the manufacturers for E6 work.

    Numerous other compounds and mixtures have been patented or published elsewhere for bleaching/BLIXing C41/E6 films, but they are AFAIK not specified or officially tested with today's films.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Also, is the ECN-2 bleach different from the C-41 bleach even though they are both color negative film?
    They use different dyes and are not similarly sensitive to bleach compounds.

    Fixers for color processes are, AFAIK, more or less the same for all these processes and are usually based on Ammonium Thiosulfate set to pH 6.5.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    In addition, I know that a stabilizer is recommended for E-6 (which I didn't know previously and didn't SEEM to come in the kits) does it also need to be done in the C-41 and ECN-2 as an additional end bath?
    PE has commented on this topic many times over, see here.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  5. #5

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    For ECN-2, you can use the same Blix you use for C-41. If you work with E-6, you can also use that Blix for ECN-2.
    There is also a kind of "Multi"-Blix from Tetenal, which works for C-41 and E-6. This also can be used for ECN-2.
    I do so longer time without problems.
    If you need longtime stability for ECN-2, use the stabilizer from an E-6 kit. This contains Formaline and ECN-2 also needs Formaline as stabilizer.
    C-41 stabilizer doesn't contain Formaline and has no effect with ECN-2.

    One thing about the self mixed ECN-2 developer: Lifetime is very very short (about 1 week), so mix small batches only and use it one shot or process more films the same day.

    Joachim

  6. #6
    wildbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    There are no kits in the USA available that have bleach and fix that aren't 5 gallon batches for large processor labs... That's why I'm doing this...

    EDIT: that also doesn't help me understand the difference between the different versions of bleach/fix since they don't list the chemicals inside just "this is the bleach bottle you use" but that doesn't give me knowledge...

    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fuji 5L kits can be had in the usa. Not cheap but available. I believe you've commented on a thread regarding them as well.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  7. #7
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    Fuji 5L kits can be had in the usa. Not cheap but available. I believe you've commented on a thread regarding them as well.
    I have Bill,

    But if you can point me to where they are available great because I disagree with you that they can be had in the US, they can be purchased online from Europe but not here in the states, Fuji no longer imports the chems...




    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  8. #8
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #9
    wildbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I have Bill,

    But if you can point me to where they are available great because I disagree with you that they can be had in the US, they can be purchased online from Europe but not here in the states, Fuji no longer imports the chems...




    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fuji doesn't import them but they CAN be shipped to the states. I'd rather buy a large quantity of kodak stuff and split it with someone though. Much more economical.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  10. #10
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    Fuji doesn't import them but they CAN be shipped to the states. I'd rather buy a large quantity of kodak stuff and split it with someone though. Much more economical.
    I wish I were as rich as bill gates or someone and buy up every color film company then get rid of C-41 altogether and restart making Astia and E100G since everyone seems to like it, and set up shipping stations across the globe so everyone could get small batch chems of E-6 for home processing

    *dreams*


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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