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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Remember that Ferrania was a 3M subsidiary for a while until they were spun back off again due to low sales. They were a tiny player and I knew some of their R&D people. Good people, but the film was mediocre at the time I checked it out. If it is "frozen" at that time period, expect a 1970s or 1970s film compared to today.

    PE
    Well, if you mean a 1970's film of Kodak 1970's quality, it's bound to be good enough for me. I never had a single complaint about any Kodak film. I wonder if they ever did let a bad roll slip out.

  2. #152
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    As for a B&W C41 film, it is not similar to a color film. It usually has one or two emulsion layers with a single chemical that turns black in the C41 process
    So it's not a colour film where all the colours are black (to paraphrase something which Henry Ford didn't actually say).


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    I think (hope) Ken was experimenting with sarcasm!


    Steve.
    oh... he needs to add more and and and to his posts to make them indicate that they are all in fun.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #154
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Remember that Ferrania was a 3M subsidiary for a while until they were spun back off again due to low sales. They were a tiny player and I knew some of their R&D people. Good people, but the film was mediocre at the time I checked it out. If it is "frozen" at that time period, expect a 1970s or 1970s film compared to today.

    PE
    In the 90's the Scotch branded films from Ferrania were amongst the fastest in the world. Actually they offered the fasted E-6 push-film ever (EI 3200).


    Later 3M re-organized their whole imaging business. That was more than just kicking off a temporary subsidiary.

  5. #155
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    oh... he needs to add more and and and to his posts to make them indicate that they are all in fun.
    Perhaps you need a sarcasm detector:




    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #156
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    I think (hope) Ken was experimenting with sarcasm!
    He was.

    But Ken also needs to earn a living, so he can only jump in here at odd intervals as time permits...

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #157
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    Maybe a 1970s Konica or Oriental film, but not EK type. Or perhaps like the Agfa 1000 speed film of the 1990s.

    In any event, it was generations behind others. As for #M and Ferrania, they had plants here in Rochester, in Minnesota and in Italy. They made different products at each location. We had friends from both the Rochester location and the Minnesota location. There were two plants here. One on Mt. Reade, across from Dynacolor and the other was about 20 miles south of the city. For 3M, the operation seemed to be a failure in the face of Agfa, Kodak and Fuji, as it was such a small player in the face of the big 3. I do recognize that Frannia had some good products and a strong following in some places, but not un the US.

    The C41 B&W films do not form 3 colors to make a black image, nor do they have 3 imaging layers in the sense of color films. They image one panchromatic image and form a black dye.

    PE

  8. #158
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    FvI remember the 3M rep visiting my factory late 1970's and giving us a pack of films and papers to test. They were trying to break into the professional market, I used all the products the RA-4 paper was excellent, in fact it was my introducyion to RA-4, the films were good as well but I never saw them readily available.

    Just to clarify all B&W C41 process films are based on colour film technology, but they use fewer layers and instead of 3 different colours they use just one, the choice of dye coupler differs between manufacturers.

    Ian
    Last edited by SuzanneR; 07-24-2013 at 07:31 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Rude

  9. #159
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Good people, but the film was mediocre at the time I checked it out. If it is "frozen" at that time period, expect a 1970s or 1970s film compared to today.
    The real take-away here is that if they can really make it happen, any E-6 offering they achieve automatically beats out any of Kodak's current E-6 offerings. Nothing is mediocre when compared to extinction.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  10. #160
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    You are absolutely right Ken. I hope that people are happy with that product if it comes to fruition.

    The patent # for the Kodak B&W material is 4,126,461. It was invented by Grant Haist's team. Dave Pupo was the lead worker. It is similar to the Ilford method. The invention shows a host of organic chemicals that can form B&W images in a color developer. You might note that at about page 30 they describe a paper coating with low Silver and Cobalt Hexammine in the developer. It also includes a Blix. At the time of the invention, that was an identical but B&W counterpart to our work on low silver papers.

    So, you might say I had an indirect connection to this work and know quite a bit about it. They worked on both films for C41 and papers for Ektaprint 3.

    PE



 

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