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  1. #151
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Maybe a 1970s Konica or Oriental film, but not EK type. Or perhaps like the Agfa 1000 speed film of the 1990s.

    In any event, it was generations behind others. As for #M and Ferrania, they had plants here in Rochester, in Minnesota and in Italy. They made different products at each location. We had friends from both the Rochester location and the Minnesota location. There were two plants here. One on Mt. Reade, across from Dynacolor and the other was about 20 miles south of the city. For 3M, the operation seemed to be a failure in the face of Agfa, Kodak and Fuji, as it was such a small player in the face of the big 3. I do recognize that Frannia had some good products and a strong following in some places, but not un the US.

    The C41 B&W films do not form 3 colors to make a black image, nor do they have 3 imaging layers in the sense of color films. They image one panchromatic image and form a black dye.

    PE

  2. #152
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    FvI remember the 3M rep visiting my factory late 1970's and giving us a pack of films and papers to test. They were trying to break into the professional market, I used all the products the RA-4 paper was excellent, in fact it was my introducyion to RA-4, the films were good as well but I never saw them readily available.

    Just to clarify all B&W C41 process films are based on colour film technology, but they use fewer layers and instead of 3 different colours they use just one, the choice of dye coupler differs between manufacturers.

    Ian
    Last edited by SuzanneR; 07-24-2013 at 07:31 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Rude

  3. #153
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Good people, but the film was mediocre at the time I checked it out. If it is "frozen" at that time period, expect a 1970s or 1970s film compared to today.
    The real take-away here is that if they can really make it happen, any E-6 offering they achieve automatically beats out any of Kodak's current E-6 offerings. Nothing is mediocre when compared to extinction.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  4. #154
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    You are absolutely right Ken. I hope that people are happy with that product if it comes to fruition.

    The patent # for the Kodak B&W material is 4,126,461. It was invented by Grant Haist's team. Dave Pupo was the lead worker. It is similar to the Ilford method. The invention shows a host of organic chemicals that can form B&W images in a color developer. You might note that at about page 30 they describe a paper coating with low Silver and Cobalt Hexammine in the developer. It also includes a Blix. At the time of the invention, that was an identical but B&W counterpart to our work on low silver papers.

    So, you might say I had an indirect connection to this work and know quite a bit about it. They worked on both films for C41 and papers for Ektaprint 3.

    PE

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    ...Nothing is mediocre when compared to extinction...
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.

  6. #156

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    I like the Ilford poster colors that was posted at the beginning of the thread. I would like to get some neg film like that. Great retro looking colors!

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.
    Quite true. I suspect there are at least some die hard analog users like me who have their limits. It can't all be about analog for the sake of analog regardless of quality. For B&W too. Kodak makes great stuff. Ilford makes great stuff. As a B&W shooter, realistically, if they disappear, I doubt I'll be able to continue. And if Ilford were to go into colour materials on any scale I think it would spell the end for Ilford B&W (and colour). Sorry but we're talking about analog photography in a digital world, so yes the glass is half empty. Sorry to be a downer, Ken N., but how many analog people print colour?

  8. #158
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You are absolutely right Ken. I hope that people are happy with that product if it comes to fruition.
    Compared with the specter of never making another color transparency film photograph again in their lifetimes?

    They'll be thrilled beyond belief!

    Which, to bring things full circle in this thread, may someday (but not yet today) equate to a small niche market opportunity that may be available to any right-sized film manufacturer with access to the technical resources required to make that happen, should future (or as we've heard, possibly even current?) market realities allow for it.

    Such a company would be derelict in their responsibilities as a business not to have at least discussed the eventuality. Words uttered at long-term strategy meetings don't really cost anything. Words NOT uttered at those same meetings can, as we've seen over the last 5+ years, cost everything.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  9. #159
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.
    That's each individual film photographer's call to make. As such I can only speak for myself, and it's not real competition for me. If color film dies, I will simply move entirely to black-and-white film. If black-and-white film dies, I will coat glass plates using PE's reportedly excellent book/DVD resource.* But I will not move to digital imaging as a replacement for photography.

    To the extent that there may be a sufficiently large group of others like me, a possible niche market may exist for follow-up color film products after the existing over-capacity players have exited the stage. Determination as to whether such a group exists will be part of the due diligence required before taking any decision to move forward to address such a market.

    If reports are true, however, it sounds like at least one Italian company may have actually moved beyond that due diligence stage.

    Only time will tell...

    Ken

    * Don't tell him I said that. I don't want him discovering that I might actually be a decent fellow...
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  10. #160
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Sorry but we're talking about analog photography in a digital world, so yes the glass is half empty. Sorry to be a downer...
    Every person's perception is, by definition, their own reality. None is more right or wrong than any other. If that's your comfort zone, then I respect that. Even if I don't agree with it.



    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932



 

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