Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,901   Posts: 1,584,525   Online: 1059
      
Page 17 of 32 FirstFirst ... 71112131415161718192021222327 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 312
  1. #161

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    San Clemente, California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    ...Nothing is mediocre when compared to extinction...
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.

  2. #162

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NE USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    211
    I like the Ilford poster colors that was posted at the beginning of the thread. I would like to get some neg film like that. Great retro looking colors!

  3. #163

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,096
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.
    Quite true. I suspect there are at least some die hard analog users like me who have their limits. It can't all be about analog for the sake of analog regardless of quality. For B&W too. Kodak makes great stuff. Ilford makes great stuff. As a B&W shooter, realistically, if they disappear, I doubt I'll be able to continue. And if Ilford were to go into colour materials on any scale I think it would spell the end for Ilford B&W (and colour). Sorry but we're talking about analog photography in a digital world, so yes the glass is half empty. Sorry to be a downer, Ken N., but how many analog people print colour?

  4. #164
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,644
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You are absolutely right Ken. I hope that people are happy with that product if it comes to fruition.
    Compared with the specter of never making another color transparency film photograph again in their lifetimes?

    They'll be thrilled beyond belief!

    Which, to bring things full circle in this thread, may someday (but not yet today) equate to a small niche market opportunity that may be available to any right-sized film manufacturer with access to the technical resources required to make that happen, should future (or as we've heard, possibly even current?) market realities allow for it.

    Such a company would be derelict in their responsibilities as a business not to have at least discussed the eventuality. Words uttered at long-term strategy meetings don't really cost anything. Words NOT uttered at those same meetings can, as we've seen over the last 5+ years, cost everything.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #165
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,644
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    But compared to the real competition (d******), it could be.
    That's each individual film photographer's call to make. As such I can only speak for myself, and it's not real competition for me. If color film dies, I will simply move entirely to black-and-white film. If black-and-white film dies, I will coat glass plates using PE's reportedly excellent book/DVD resource.* But I will not move to digital imaging as a replacement for photography.

    To the extent that there may be a sufficiently large group of others like me, a possible niche market may exist for follow-up color film products after the existing over-capacity players have exited the stage. Determination as to whether such a group exists will be part of the due diligence required before taking any decision to move forward to address such a market.

    If reports are true, however, it sounds like at least one Italian company may have actually moved beyond that due diligence stage.

    Only time will tell...

    Ken

    * Don't tell him I said that. I don't want him discovering that I might actually be a decent fellow...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  6. #166
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,644
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Sorry but we're talking about analog photography in a digital world, so yes the glass is half empty. Sorry to be a downer...
    Every person's perception is, by definition, their own reality. None is more right or wrong than any other. If that's your comfort zone, then I respect that. Even if I don't agree with it.



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #167
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,544
    Images
    65
    Well, I have lead you into a trap.

    The E6 film might be as good as a '60s product, but digital is going to be a "today" product. How will they compare?

    Chances are that digital might win. It will not compared to a Kodak or Fuji product but compare it to a Farrania product.

    PE

  8. #168
    StoneNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    7,988
    Images
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, I have lead you into a trap.

    The E6 film might be as good as a '60s product, but digital is going to be a "today" product. How will they compare?

    Chances are that digital might win. It will not compared to a Kodak or Fuji product but compare it to a Farrania product.

    PE
    HAHA PE... you're opinion that kodak and fuji compare to digital :-P it's all relative of course on your process and your perspective. But I ask you, why is lomography doing so well if their stuff is WORSE than the 60's film? hmmm?
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #169

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Remember that Ferrania was a 3M subsidiary for a while until they were spun back off again due to low sales. They were a tiny player and I knew some of their R&D people. Good people, but the film was mediocre at the time I checked it out. If it is "frozen" at that time period, expect a 1970s or 1970s film compared to today.

    PE
    Actually, I think Ferrania did advance and gain some ground with their FG and FG Plus emulsions during the five or so years before they ceased production. While they still had more grain than equivalent Fuji and Kodak offerings, they did have the fairly saturated colors and 'edge effects' of modern consumer color negative films, very unlike a color negative film circa 1970. However, they still retained their fondness for earth tones such as brown and orange, and the strange way Ferrania film has always rendered bodies of water; almost painting-like. The odd film out was their 200 ISO; it did seem to be older technology and did not match the rest of the family. I still have many rolls of FG Plus 100 in the freezer.
    Last edited by Ten301; 07-25-2013 at 12:47 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #170
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,644
    Images
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, I have lead you into a trap.

    The E6 film might be as good as a '60s product, but digital is going to be a "today" product. How will they compare?

    Chances are that digital might win. It will not compared to a Kodak or Fuji product but compare it to a Farrania product.
    Aww... not a trap, really.

    A trap requires bait to work successfully. And for me digital is not sufficiently tasty enough to induce me to step into the maw. Tasty enough for a significant slice of the remaining color shooters? I would think that by this late date most of the fence-sitters have long since cast their lot. But maybe not. Again, time will tell.

    Stone's point above carries some weight here. Both Lomography and Impossible Project have successfully circumvented their respective lack of quality issues by appealing to other, more fundamental desires of their respective target markets. Primarily, that burning desire of younger people to differentiate themselves from all the other young people they see. Analog film photography accomplishes this stratification nicely for some of them. And profitably for both companies, if reports are to be believed. Lemons into lemonade.

    This is the style of target demographic that will, I think, possibly provide the critical mass for a small post-EK, post-Fuji color film aftermarket niche. Those who want to be—or want to appear to be—outside the now all-digital masses. This includes both amateurs and professionals.

    Film will never again be about the millions of children's birthday parties cycling through 52 times each year on Saturday afternoons. But it might be that there are enough residual film enthusiasts, and self-proclaimed outcasts, and a few new younger ones,* to provide a correctly right-sized operation with the base it needs to successfully have a go at a smaller, but still workably profitable, film manufacturing company.

    Technical issues? Yep. Probably plenty. But that's what the people in businesses do. They figure out ways around the obstacles and get on with it.

    Hey, ever think that maybe those guys at Ferrania ran he numbers for their shot at the ring and decided to jump in right now before a reconstituted Kodak film selling business could take hold. Maybe they know that the niche is not ever going to be very big, and if they can get a market share toe hold before the new Kodak venture does they just might lock up enough of it to succeed.

    Speculation? Sure. But not unreasonable, I think.

    Ken

    * I was at an airshow two weekends ago. Had the pristine 4x5 Crown with me. After finishing with this beautiful 1936 Lockheed Electra 12A Junior I sat down in some shade. A fellow and his son were there. The dad struck up a conversation, so I gave him the short story of the camera and how it works. All the while the boy, maybe 14, watched intently. As I get up to leave I hear him ask his dad "You know that old Pentax camera you have? Yes. Can you still buy film for that?" Dad looks up at me. I slowly nod "Yes" with an ear-to-ear grin, sit back down, and give them the scoop on how and where to buy it. (Freestyle, do I get a commission?)

    This is where the future photographic film niche market will come from...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin