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  1. #201

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    I'd say Kodak film was generally higher priced than any of the others for the most part. But you've got to ask yourself a question. Have you ever heard of ANYTHING defective from them? In 50 years, I haven't. You're bound to think it had to happen somewhere sometime, but I've never heard of it. They print this disclaimer I practically know by heart after all these years: "This product will be replaced in manufacturing, labeling, or packaging..." I always rolled my eyes at it. Seemed almost absurd to even have to print that, because it doesn't happen. Not that I've ever heard of. So, it's higher. When the stakes are high, you can count on it. Can't coun't on a lot of other things, but THAT you can. Plus the fact that the state of New York is also undoubtedly run by tax-addicts.

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    Stone, keep in mind that the price you pay at a brick & mortar or online store for the Kodak or Fuji brand includes overhead for the retailer, plus they need a little profit. Typically retailers like this operate at a higher expense than the dollar stores.

    Also, when film is "rebranded" for a "dollar" or "pound" store, Kodak or Fuji make less per unit than if they sold to Freestyle or B&H. However, they get a contract for a very large volume, which helps make up for the loss.
    I understand how that works in general, the concept. But that's a HUGE profit difference not a small one. Also like ilford says they pulled out of that because we all know what it really is, so it does take away from the big boys. I'm not talking about films like "shaws brand" which surely is crappy fuji superia or gold or something, I'm talking about Portra400 and Ektar100 type films, (or in the easy case of Arista, Tri-X) Anyway we're WAY off topic here so lets get back on track with color film discussion from ilford, which IMO I think for now they should stay out of it completely, there's still too much competition. I really do wish they would consider buying the fuji machines and patents for Velvia50/100 and Provia100f and Astia when Fuji finally shuts down its E-6 line, then they would own the market on E-6 and could produce papers again and have no competition at all. If they do any color at all, I really think that should be it, there was a time it didn't work because C-41 took over and RA4 papers were cheaper to make etc, but I think by the time Fuji shuts it down, the market will be good for a comeback of chemically produced high quality images that are sustainable for lifetimes...

  3. #203

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    I take that back. About 40 years ago I bought a booklet called "Applied Infrared Photography". Didn't turn out to be as interesting as I thought because I had no use for taking aerial shots of jungles to discern guerrillas, but that's beside the point. I remember it had a few duplicate pages. Now I know that the books were likely gathered and stitched on a Macybinder, which can occasionally pick up doubles. But Koday probably didn't print it right there on the premises. Probably was farmed out. If that's the worst of my complaints with Kodak, then I'm doing pretty good.

  4. #204
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    Tom;

    At that time, Kodak did indeed print their own booklets (for the most part), in their own printing department.

    PE

  5. #205

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    Well then I want my money back on my booklet.

  6. #206

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    Again, Ilford getting into color film would be a great risk. They do what they well and have a reputation built upon that and that is B&W film and paper of great quality. Do you think that is possibly worth losing if the company goes under with a costly attempt at color?
    Bachelor of Fine Arts and Bachelor of Arts: Journalism - University of Arkansas 2014

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  7. #207
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Give them more credit for good business sense than that. The reason they are where they are is because they know how to do it without going under.

    Certainly just speculation, but I suspect if they ever did decide the potential rewards were worth the risk, that calculation would be based at least in part on an assumption that any failure also had to be sustainable.

    On a much smaller scale I seem to recall they once had an R&D look at a possible new Delta 25 film, but decided the risk was too great and dropped it. They did introduce a new cold tone developer, but it apparently never reached escape velocity and was similarly dropped. And we all know how far the emotionally draining begging for a resumption of 220 roll film went. And these are only the projects we know about.

    But on the other hand, we got postcard paper back. Who would have thought that was still viable in an era when the US Postal system is going bankrupt from reduced use of letters and... postcards. And how about new 4x5 and 8x10 cameras? Pinhole cameras, no less. Who knew?

    And of course, they have still maintained all of their previously existing product lines in an era when everyone else is fighting just to keep from going out of business.

    No, give them credit. They are not fools. Thank God. If they ever did reach a point where they wanted to give color a try, I wouldn't be worried in the slightest. Remember, they got to where they are by knowing how to assume and manage risk successfully.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  8. #208

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    You are right. They have good business sense and deserve credit. I spoke to a couple of representatives at SPE in Chicago. This reassured me that their film will be around, enough so that I have started shooting 4x5. That is something I never thought I would do. However, a part of their good business sense has been sticking with core products and not trying to do too much. I do not know what their position is except that it is stable. I would just hate to that jeopardized in any way.
    Bachelor of Fine Arts and Bachelor of Arts: Journalism - University of Arkansas 2014

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  9. #209
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    If they hadn't been willing to assume and manage the (enormous at the time) risk of taking over the earlier bankrupt version of Ilford, where would we all be right now?

    It's just as dangerous to be overly risk-averse as it is to be overly risky. The key to surviving, in life as well as business, is to find the sweet spot in between. And to be shrewd enough to track and follow it when it subtly moves. And it ALWAYS moves. Just ask Kodak.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  10. #210
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    On a much smaller scale I seem to recall they once had an R&D look at a possible new Delta 25 film, but decided the risk was too great and dropped it.
    The risk was that it would take sales away from PAN F leaving not enough throughput to keep either viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    It's just as dangerous to be overly risk-averse as it is to be overly risky.
    Which is why the UK (and the US I assume) doesn't have much of a car industry any more... or any other type of industry for that matter.


    Steve.
    Last edited by Steve Smith; 07-26-2013 at 02:15 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.



 

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