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  1. #261
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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  2. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiedzmin View Post

    Commodities Trading Drove Up Oil Prices

    Why? Although the EIA pinned part of the blame on volatility in Venezuela and Nigeria, it warned of an influx of investment money into commodities markets. Investors were stampeding out of the falling real estate and stock markets. Instead, they diverted their funds to oil futures. This sudden surge drove up oil prices, creating a speculative bubble. (Source: EIA Short-Term Energy Outlook)..."
    Does not high prices paid in the Commodities market for oil futures constitute demand? I said demand NOT consumption.

  3. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmquinn View Post
    Does not high prices paid in the Commodities market for oil futures constitute demand? I said demand NOT consumption.
    I'm thinking about demand more from consumer point of view. I remember just before stock market collapsed, almost from everywhere (radio,tv, press) there was one message: "demand is so high and oil reserves so low that we can forget about gasoline below $5 very soon (prices in NY were over $4 close to 5 back then) what happened next we all know. Prices went down to ~$1.50 and the same "experts" were saying that in gasoline price at the gas station up to 70% is driven by speculation. Now prices are up again. I do not think anyone can believe that this is demand and supply what causes it. If real free market forces would work than we would not need all of those Bailouts to "save" the free market. And again the same experts who were so against any government market regulations since I remember, were the biggest supporters and advocates for recent Bailouts.

    2+2 does not equal 4 anymore unfortunately.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmquinn View Post
    Does not high prices paid in the Commodities market for oil futures constitute demand? I said demand NOT consumption.
    Only semantically and barely. If it's "demand" at all it's artificially created at best.

    If I had my way anyone who bought oil would have to take physical delivery of it and same with futures, no more trading certificates representing oil. Yes I know that wouldn't be practical. Sure would bring down the price of oil though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Only semantically and barely. If it's "demand" at all it's artificially created at best.

    If I had my way anyone who bought oil would have to take physical delivery of it and same with futures, no more trading certificates representing oil. Yes I know that wouldn't be practical. Sure would bring down the price of oil though.
    Exactly !

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    I guess it boils down to how you define supply and demand. The way I look at it if you want to buy something you have to pay the price the current owners of the item are charging. If you don’t like the price too bad for you, just don’t buy it. If they buy too much and can't sell it for a profit too bad for them. I feel that everyone and every company charges the most they can get for their product. Ilford makes a quality product and charges a premium price for it. They, like any other company, only lowers their price when they can no longer sell enough at the price they are currently charging. Either because the consumers are buying a similar item from competitors or because they have switched to an alternative lower cost item. Some people may find inkjet prints to be good enough for them at a lower cost than fiber prints. The price of good fiber prints is too much for them. We all do similar things all the time. I do it all the time when I buy fresh produce. I may really want to buy pears but if the price of a peaches is half as much as pears I buy the peaches.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Only semantically and barely. If it's "demand" at all it's artificially created at best.

    If I had my way anyone who bought oil would have to take physical delivery of it and same with futures, no more trading certificates representing oil. Yes I know that wouldn't be practical. Sure would bring down the price of oil though.
    I knew a guy a few streets over who installed a gas tank at his property and was buying gas like a gas station at like wholesale prices a few years ago.

    He was reported and shut down, not for safety reasons but because the oil company complained that he wasn't having to pay full price at the tank because he was buying it wholesale, he wasn't selling the gas except to himself, but the delivery truck guy was the one who reported it to his boss, and the oil conglomerate had him shut down.

    Sounds like he found a way to save money and they killed it because they didn't want it to catch on...

    I'm all for capitalism if its just capitalism but lobbyists and companies that buy their way into winning upset me.

    It's the same with oil prices, they control the prices, period, there's no reason why it's $4/gallon here and $15/gallon in Europe when the gas is closer to there...

    It's just all BS...


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    I don't see how that story could be correct. Think about it. If the oil company did not like him getting the gas for wholesale all they would have to do is charge him retail. And who would the oil company complain to? However if he was getting the gas and not paying the sales tax since he was getting it wholesale that is a different story and could get him shut down very quickly. The tax is a big part of the cost of a gallon of gas. That is why they can sell it so much cheaper on an Indian Reservation in New York.
    Last edited by brianmquinn; 08-10-2013 at 07:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post

    It's the same with oil prices, they control the prices, period, there's no reason why it's $4/gallon here and $15/gallon in Europe when the gas is closer to there...

    It's just all BS...


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    The difference in pump prices between North America and Europe is almost entirely due to much higher taxes in Europe.

    I doubt the story because the wholesale price is just a few cents cheaper. Some private pilots have their own tanks because some airplanes can legally and safely run on car gas, but only if it's ethanol free, instead of the much more expensive leaded avgas. I've never heard of then being hassled for buying wholesale (though the EPA is another matter if the tanks are too large.)

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    The difference in pump prices between North America and Europe is almost entirely due to much higher taxes in Europe.

    I doubt the story because the wholesale price is just a few cents cheaper. Some private pilots have their own tanks because some airplanes can legally and safely run on car gas, but only if it's ethanol free, instead of the much more expensive leaded avgas. I've never heard of then being hassled for buying wholesale (though the EPA is another matter if the tanks are too large.)
    It was in a news paper but obviously don't have the article anymore, sorry I can't quote a source it was the CT Post I believe, or the New Haven Advocate or Hartford Currant.

    I don't get the paper myself so it was like at someone's house or at a coffee shop or something.


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