Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,702   Posts: 1,482,650   Online: 673
      
Page 4 of 32 FirstFirst 1234567891014 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 312
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    I tend to worry. I don't think there is a future for analog colour materials so I really wouldn't want to see a great B&W manufacturer anywhere near it.
    I don't either and I don't think Harman would even contemplate making colour film for the tiny residual market that will remain when Kodak and Fuji decide to quit. Harman is the dominant player in monochrome which I believe will be the only segment of mass-marketed film to survive into the next decade. Historically, colour was never a good news story for Ilford and I cannot see why Harman would revisit it thereby risking the excellent mono business they have created out of the remnants of the old Ilford. OzJohn

  2. #32
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,807
    Images
    46
    By now we must be getting pretty close to that "swift and sure denial..."



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,498
    Quote Originally Posted by OzJohn View Post
    I don't either and I don't think Harman would even contemplate making colour film for the tiny residual market that will remain when Kodak and Fuji decide to quit. Harman is the dominant player in monochrome which I believe will be the only segment of mass-marketed film to survive into the next decade. Historically, colour was never a good news story for Ilford and I cannot see why Harman would revisit it thereby risking the excellent mono business they have created out of the remnants of the old Ilford. OzJohn

    I'm sure you're correct with that. Apart from all the technical considerations, I can't see that there woould ever be significant profits or ROI even if Ilford were the last manufacturer of colour film. There monochrome business seems to be a solid ongoing niche, and they are already diversifying into other non-photographic areas.

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,432
    Images
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Is it truly a figurative choice between either the whole photographic world must use color film to make it minimally viable to produce, or else nothing at all is even possible?



    This is such a great question. I find it staggering that a small film plant cannot be built to supply the world efficiently with various films. We know how huge and massive Kodak's plants are. That was what was needed with film consumption was in the billions of rolls. Those days are gone and it is impossible to run Kodak's coating lines efficiently.

    But what if Harmon had a far smaller line built? The ROI calculation is far different then, and for the better.

    I have seen giant steel mills that roll 50-60 ton rolls of steel. That's the normal way steel is produced. Yet I have seen tiny mills that roll steal at only 1 ton a roll. If a huge steel mill could be downsized, why not a film coating line?

    There will still be demand for millions of rolls of film and someone should be able to find a way to profitably meet that demand. Kodak won't do it. It does not look good that Fujifilm will subsidize film with their profitable business. That means an opportunity for someone else.

  5. #35
    StoneNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    6,131
    Images
    210
    My dream is that E-6 somehow outlasts C-41 and stays alive somehow, and I will only hope and pray that if fuji stops making Velia and Provia100f altogether, that ilford will sweep in, buy the machines to make a small run facility, and then bring back ilfochrome papers for printing, they would OWN the whole color market. And they already have the technology for the paper and chemistry, no real research would have to be done, and they would have the formulas for making Velvia/Provia (maybe even Astia) and even digital hybrid users would flock to the ability to have archival prints that last forever with no fading. I dunno, I can dream right?

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    789
    In reply to post #35...

    Cibachrome/Ilfochrome materials are/were made, owned and sold by the 'other' part of the broken-up Ilford company. The one in Switzerland. They had no success in the further development, logistics or marketing of those products. Harman may well have worked on some materials contracts, but the actual product was not theirs.

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,498
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    This is such a great question. I find it staggering that a small film plant cannot be built to supply the world efficiently with various films. We know how huge and massive Kodak's plants are. That was what was needed with film consumption was in the billions of rolls. Those days are gone and it is impossible to run Kodak's coating lines efficiently.

    But what if Harmon had a far smaller line built? The ROI calculation is far different then, and for the better.

    I have seen giant steel mills that roll 50-60 ton rolls of steel. That's the normal way steel is produced. Yet I have seen tiny mills that roll steal at only 1 ton a roll. If a huge steel mill could be downsized, why not a film coating line?

    There will still be demand for millions of rolls of film and someone should be able toelse find a way to profitably meet that demand. Kodak won't do it. It does not look good that Fujifilm will subsidize film with their profitable business. That means an opportunity for someone .
    Just think of the cost of building a new coating line for color, even a small one. You can't buy one readymade, so you need new specialist buildings, specially designed and built one-off machinery, plant for emulsion making (many seperate coatings all to be ready at the right time), and the qualified and experienced staff to operate it. You then need packaging machines (or at least different packaging and print supplies), quality control support, at least some initial R&D, a distribution chain to the smaller number of specialist customers, with processing services or chemical kits if Kodak and Fuji no longer supply them.

    Don't hold your breath.

  8. #38
    StoneNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    6,131
    Images
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinP View Post
    In reply to post #35...

    Cibachrome/Ilfochrome materials are/were made, owned and sold by the 'other' part of the broken-up Ilford company. The one in Switzerland. They had no success in the further development, logistics or marketing of those products. Harman may well have worked on some materials contracts, but the actual product was not theirs.
    Yes but Ilford could always license it or buy the patent/equipment(if it still exists) from Harman Switzerland or something, I mean the company is sort of failed right, so they need the money
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #39
    Steve Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ryde, Isle of Wight
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    8,433
    Images
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    You can't buy one readymade, so you need new specialist buildings, specially designed and built one-off machinery, plant for emulsion making (many seperate coatings all to be ready at the right time), and the qualified and experienced staff to operate it. You then need packaging machines (or at least different packaging and print supplies), quality control support, at least some initial R&D, a distribution chain to the smaller number of specialist customers, with processing services or chemical kits if Kodak and Fuji no longer supply them.
    It's not quite rocket science and if people have done it before, they can do it again.

    Coating machines are not exclusive to film. They are used to coat magnetic materials for recording tape and adhesives to plastic and lots of other things I can't think of right now.


    Steve.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,498
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    It's not quite rocket science and if people have done it before, they can do it again.

    Coating machines are not exclusive to film. They are used to coat magnetic materials for recording tape and adhesives to plastic and lots of other things I can't think of right now.


    Steve.
    I agree, but we're talking about a product with maybe 12-14 separate coatings to the highest standards...I read somewhere that color film is one of the most complex consumer products on the market. Robert Shanebrook's book is instructive (and well worth buying before it sells out for ever), and, having been on one of the Mobberley factory tours, even B&W to Ilford's high standards (maybe just 2-3 coatings) is a remarkable product.

    Granted, Efke could knock out a usable B&W product with their ancient facilities, but, even if they were still here, I dont think they'd be tackling color.

    And, talking of rocket science, NASA sent men to the moon 40 years ago, but SFAIK they've no firm plans to do it again. No doubt they could do it technically, but it doesn't justify the cost for the benefits it would produce....sounds a little like color film....

Page 4 of 32 FirstFirst 1234567891014 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin