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  1. #71
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Regarding the Saturn V, CAN it be done: YES. There is a man here in Reading, PA building a P-61 from scraps of a crashed plane, new materials and some microfiche plans from North American. It is supposed to fly this year or next and certainly appears likely to happen. The effort has become a life mission for him. These things CAN be done.

    WOULD the US Government build another Saturn V and go to the moon, or any other planet/asteroid for that matter? No. They are far too interested in tracking our email and phone calls and other things that I would not recommend we get into here.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  2. #72
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Oh, and BTW, a Saturn V by today's technology is primitive. Today, we would use light weight materials and a solid fuel rocket to get that baby moving. And the astronauts would have the same chance as the Shuttle astronauts did or better.
    Agreed, we could do a much better job today. I wish we would.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  3. #73

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    I hope I'll be forgiven for interrupting the discussion with another Ilford "colour" advertisement, from the 1966 BJP Annual (acquired today in an Oxfam shop)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20130723_4335-03-1.jpg  

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    Oh, and BTW, a Saturn V by today's technology is primitive. Today, we would use light weight materials and a solid fuel rocket to get that baby moving. And the astronauts would have the same chance as the Shuttle astronauts did or better.

    PE
    I disagree. Solid rocket fuel is nasty stuff. And they are currently testing an old Saturn V rocket motor to understand just how it was done back then, and to figure out how improve on its power output. Primitive, maybe, but fundamentally very sound.

    If the money had been there to develop the Shuttle as originally envisioned, the fatal compromises which led to the destruction of two of them would not have been present.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #75
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    Out of curiosity, does anyone have any data that would give at least a ballpark idea of the current demand for (to pick one example) Portra 160 in 120 format?

    What are global sales? 1000 rolls/day? 10,000 rolls/day? 10 rolls/day? 100,000 rolls/day?

    Any idea?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    I have wondered from time to time if they could ever build a Saturn 5 rocket exactly as it was, again. I have my doubts. I think if they were to repeat the entire mission as it was to the detail, the men would be killed.
    Why? Do you think people just don't care enough anymore? Many excellent and dedicated people are involved in modern space endeavors, and they have the past on which to draw. And methods of design, manufacture and testing have improved tremendously since then.

    Have you forgotten about Apollo 1? Poor quality work led to that horror, exacerbated by some poor design.

    Your statement doesn't hold water. Cars and air travel are safer than they've ever been, due to constant learning and improvement. Independent companies are getting into space now, and I am pretty sure that not killing people is a very important consideration to them.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Why? Do you think people just don't care enough anymore? Methods of design, manufacture and testing have improved tremendously since then.

    Have you forgotten about Apollo 1? Poor quality work led to that horror, exacerbated by some poor design.

    Your statement doesn't hold water. Cars and air travel are safer than they've ever been, due to constant learning and improvement. Independent companies are getting into space now, and I am pretty sure that not killing people is a very important consideration to them.
    No, I simply meant that the designs of the equipment have fallen into oblivion. I didn't say they couldn't do it with the present technology. They're not likely to though, as the moon is just sand. There's no resources there that can be mined or utilized. A basically worthless ball that provides the tides here, and that's about all.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, the problem is that it will take a multimillion dollar investment to get started, and it will take years before any product comes out of the plant. I would guess about 5 years starting from the time the plant facility is ready to roll and the time usable product comes out the other end. This is based on having no formulas or engineers and working from patents alone. It may take longer. It may take less if you have some experienced persons on board.

    Look how long it is taking TIP to produce a product and they had a plant, engineers and formulas.

    And, BTW, I have said before that E6 will go before C41. There is just no demand for Pos-Pos systems, but the Motion Picture industry still drives C41.

    PE
    Ok, you have spelled out the enormous barrier to entry for a new company, but how about for a company that's already making the product but whose machine is waaaay too big? How difficult would it be for them to build a scaled down machine to meet the smaller market? I know this does not match the mindset in Rochester and I do remember your posts from a couple years ago on the difficulties of expanding production of same products to new or different plants. I am asking for wild speculation, considering the possibility that somebody (maybe the marketing company) purchases the production division as a whole, along with all the people.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  9. #79

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    We don't need a Saturn V. A new moon mission would would be launched from a facility such as the space station where only the equipment needed to go from earth orbit would be bolted together. you wouldn't need 1st stage at all, and probably not the 2nd stage because you're already in orbit. Of course, this is assuming all we want to do is send 3 people inside a tin can.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by pbromaghin; 07-23-2013 at 12:18 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: 2nd,not 3rd.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  10. #80

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    Yes, BTW--I remember Apollo 1 probably once a month or 2 and always have. Not to sidetracK the thread. Grissom, White, and Chaffee. I was 10 years old, and can never forget it. I have this on my hard drive:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 8345965mwClxPvaQE_ph.jpg  



 

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