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  1. #81
    omaha's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, does anyone have any data that would give at least a ballpark idea of the current demand for (to pick one example) Portra 160 in 120 format?

    What are global sales? 1000 rolls/day? 10,000 rolls/day? 10 rolls/day? 100,000 rolls/day?

    Any idea?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    I have wondered from time to time if they could ever build a Saturn 5 rocket exactly as it was, again. I have my doubts. I think if they were to repeat the entire mission as it was to the detail, the men would be killed.
    Why? Do you think people just don't care enough anymore? Many excellent and dedicated people are involved in modern space endeavors, and they have the past on which to draw. And methods of design, manufacture and testing have improved tremendously since then.

    Have you forgotten about Apollo 1? Poor quality work led to that horror, exacerbated by some poor design.

    Your statement doesn't hold water. Cars and air travel are safer than they've ever been, due to constant learning and improvement. Independent companies are getting into space now, and I am pretty sure that not killing people is a very important consideration to them.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Why? Do you think people just don't care enough anymore? Methods of design, manufacture and testing have improved tremendously since then.

    Have you forgotten about Apollo 1? Poor quality work led to that horror, exacerbated by some poor design.

    Your statement doesn't hold water. Cars and air travel are safer than they've ever been, due to constant learning and improvement. Independent companies are getting into space now, and I am pretty sure that not killing people is a very important consideration to them.
    No, I simply meant that the designs of the equipment have fallen into oblivion. I didn't say they couldn't do it with the present technology. They're not likely to though, as the moon is just sand. There's no resources there that can be mined or utilized. A basically worthless ball that provides the tides here, and that's about all.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, the problem is that it will take a multimillion dollar investment to get started, and it will take years before any product comes out of the plant. I would guess about 5 years starting from the time the plant facility is ready to roll and the time usable product comes out the other end. This is based on having no formulas or engineers and working from patents alone. It may take longer. It may take less if you have some experienced persons on board.

    Look how long it is taking TIP to produce a product and they had a plant, engineers and formulas.

    And, BTW, I have said before that E6 will go before C41. There is just no demand for Pos-Pos systems, but the Motion Picture industry still drives C41.

    PE
    Ok, you have spelled out the enormous barrier to entry for a new company, but how about for a company that's already making the product but whose machine is waaaay too big? How difficult would it be for them to build a scaled down machine to meet the smaller market? I know this does not match the mindset in Rochester and I do remember your posts from a couple years ago on the difficulties of expanding production of same products to new or different plants. I am asking for wild speculation, considering the possibility that somebody (maybe the marketing company) purchases the production division as a whole, along with all the people.
    All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. Choose the one that has heart.

    Don Juan

  5. #85

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    We don't need a Saturn V. A new moon mission would would be launched from a facility such as the space station where only the equipment needed to go from earth orbit would be bolted together. you wouldn't need 1st stage at all, and probably not the 2nd stage because you're already in orbit. Of course, this is assuming all we want to do is send 3 people inside a tin can.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by pbromaghin; 07-23-2013 at 12:18 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: 2nd,not 3rd.
    All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. Choose the one that has heart.

    Don Juan

  6. #86

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    Yes, BTW--I remember Apollo 1 probably once a month or 2 and always have. Not to sidetracK the thread. Grissom, White, and Chaffee. I was 10 years old, and can never forget it. I have this on my hard drive:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 8345965mwClxPvaQE_ph.jpg  

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    Yes, BTW--I remember Apollo 1 probably once a month or 2 and always have. Not to sidetracK the thread. Grissom, White, and Chaffee. I was 10 years old, and can never forget it. I have this on my hard drive:
    Ahh but what film was this shot on?


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  8. #88
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    Well, LX, we have had remarkable success with solid fuel rockets. They do store and handle very well. If you could have seen the problems with fueling and storing liquid fuels, you might change your mind. In fact, many of the "holds" were due to liquid fuel problems such as stuck valves and excess pressure.

    But we digress. Sorry.

    PE

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    To start with, I am not the person to bequeath anything to posterity regarding all film manufacture. I know small bits and pieces of things but not everything. And, in some cases I never was involved in actual products. So, I know little about E6 products, but know a fair bit about C41 and some B&W products. But, then again that knowledge is out of date as of the time I retired. That is the reason for an NDA. It obsoletes information. So, there are better people to talk to about these subjects.

    As for making a chemical plant, very admirable! But in the case of film, that is a tiny fraction of the overall plant. You need custom synthesis, custom coating, and custom chemical prep. See Bob Shanebrook's book for all of this stuff. So, making film is building a chemical plant times 4 or so just to get started. Do able? Yes! Desirable? Maybe, because without enough revenues you lose money.

    Now, I don:t think anything posted here makes this thread crazy.

    Oh, and BTW, a Saturn V by today's technology is primitive. Today, we would use light weight materials and a solid fuel rocket to get that baby moving. And the astronauts would have the same chance as the Shuttle astronauts did or better.

    PE
    I meant crazy as in lots of posts...

    Can't you be encouraged to help with the posterity of film, at least consider it...

    And your knowledge is much more than most and "older" outdated knowledge that can be had is better than newer knowledge that is still sealed away by contracts and patent law.



    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  10. #90
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    Ok, you have spelled out the enormous barrier to entry for a new company, but how about for a company that's already making the product but whose machine is waaaay too big? How difficult would it be for them to build a scaled down machine to meet the smaller market? I know this does not match the mindset in Rochester and I do remember your posts from a couple years ago on the difficulties of expanding production of same products to new or different plants. I am asking for wild speculation, considering the possibility that somebody (maybe the marketing company) purchases the production division as a whole, along with all the people.
    Building a smaller coating machine, or starting up a small one that is mothballed would not be hard. It would be costly! And, the market would have to justify that expense. So, a big fast machine for Motion Picture and a small one for commercial B&W and Color. Great, a can-do job. But right now, MP is supporting commercial. I don't think that commercial is a stand alone exercise.

    PE



 

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