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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    Yes, BTW--I remember Apollo 1 probably once a month or 2 and always have. Not to sidetracK the thread. Grissom, White, and Chaffee. I was 10 years old, and can never forget it. I have this on my hard drive:
    Ahh but what film was this shot on?


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  2. #82
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Well, LX, we have had remarkable success with solid fuel rockets. They do store and handle very well. If you could have seen the problems with fueling and storing liquid fuels, you might change your mind. In fact, many of the "holds" were due to liquid fuel problems such as stuck valves and excess pressure.

    But we digress. Sorry.

    PE

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    To start with, I am not the person to bequeath anything to posterity regarding all film manufacture. I know small bits and pieces of things but not everything. And, in some cases I never was involved in actual products. So, I know little about E6 products, but know a fair bit about C41 and some B&W products. But, then again that knowledge is out of date as of the time I retired. That is the reason for an NDA. It obsoletes information. So, there are better people to talk to about these subjects.

    As for making a chemical plant, very admirable! But in the case of film, that is a tiny fraction of the overall plant. You need custom synthesis, custom coating, and custom chemical prep. See Bob Shanebrook's book for all of this stuff. So, making film is building a chemical plant times 4 or so just to get started. Do able? Yes! Desirable? Maybe, because without enough revenues you lose money.

    Now, I don:t think anything posted here makes this thread crazy.

    Oh, and BTW, a Saturn V by today's technology is primitive. Today, we would use light weight materials and a solid fuel rocket to get that baby moving. And the astronauts would have the same chance as the Shuttle astronauts did or better.

    PE
    I meant crazy as in lots of posts...

    Can't you be encouraged to help with the posterity of film, at least consider it...

    And your knowledge is much more than most and "older" outdated knowledge that can be had is better than newer knowledge that is still sealed away by contracts and patent law.



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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    Ok, you have spelled out the enormous barrier to entry for a new company, but how about for a company that's already making the product but whose machine is waaaay too big? How difficult would it be for them to build a scaled down machine to meet the smaller market? I know this does not match the mindset in Rochester and I do remember your posts from a couple years ago on the difficulties of expanding production of same products to new or different plants. I am asking for wild speculation, considering the possibility that somebody (maybe the marketing company) purchases the production division as a whole, along with all the people.
    Building a smaller coating machine, or starting up a small one that is mothballed would not be hard. It would be costly! And, the market would have to justify that expense. So, a big fast machine for Motion Picture and a small one for commercial B&W and Color. Great, a can-do job. But right now, MP is supporting commercial. I don't think that commercial is a stand alone exercise.

    PE

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by kb3lms View Post
    Unfortunately, it seems that is exactly what happens - they just go away. What about the EFKE formulations? AFAIK there is no intention to ever produce an EFKE film again, so what's the harm in telling us how it works, especially if moving production from one line to another is not an easy thing to do anyway? Maybe someone else has licensed or owns the IP by this time, I don't know. But from what I know of it, they weren't particularly up to date formulas and there are plenty junior emulsion makers here that would just love to see under the hood.

    EFKE films were black and white films, not color, but my point being the data hasn't shown up anywhere so yes, when they quit it seems that they just go into that big emulsion kettle in the sky.



    That's true, but they had to make progress, keep the taxpayers happy and actually achieve the goal. It wasn't entirely open loop. Like the post about someone starting up their own chemical plant above, if someone has the will to make the effort to produce small runs of color films profitably, they will figure out how to do so. It may not be easy, they might have to start from scratch or they might buy/license technology. They might have some of the 200 emulsion engineers available to them or they may not. I do not know how it would be done - all I am saying is that if someone really wants to do it then they will find a way and make it happen. Someone says they are going to do this at Ferrania. We'll see how badly they want to get it done in the next few months, I suppose.
    I have been trying to ignore these EFKE comments but I can't any longer, because its a terrible example, efke film is just awful, terrible QC, that ugly "EFKEitis" spots all over the film... Who in their right mind would bother taking any knowledge from them, they obviously weren't good at what they did...

    I know your point is about the release of information but I'm a little slighted, I wasted about $100 on efke film and all of it was useless and defective, and they had already closed so I had little recourse. I can see why they closed... But at least I got some 127 backing paper, so there's the silver lining I guess...


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    Yes, BTW--I remember Apollo 1 probably once a month or 2 and always have. Not to sidetracK the thread. Grissom, White, and Chaffee. I was 10 years old, and can never forget it. I have this on my hard drive:
    I met Gus on two occasions. Once when I was working in hangar "S" and another when I was being "introduced" to Ham, the chimp. The chimp tried to spray me with water from his hose while Gus looked on and laughed.

    Apollo 1 was about 3 years after I left the Cape.

    PE

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I met Gus on two occasions. Once when I was working in hangar "S" and another when I was being "introduced" to Ham, the chimp. The chimp tried to spray me with water from his hose while Gus looked on and laughed.

    Apollo 1 was about 3 years after I left the Cape.

    PE
    Chimp must have been flirting with you Ron, he liked you... Haha


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    that ugly "EFKEitis" spots all over the film... Who in their right mind would bother taking any knowledge from them, they obviously weren't good at what they did...
    They obviously weren't very good at doing it but it's possible that it was a perfectly good emulsion coated in an unsuitable way - e.g. not a clean enough environment.

    In which case it might be worth learning the emulsion making technique but improving the coating method.

    I assume the bits in between the 'Efkeitis spots' worked ok!!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, LX, we have had remarkable success with solid fuel rockets. They do store and handle very well. If you could have seen the problems with fueling and storing liquid fuels, you might change your mind. In fact, many of the "holds" were due to liquid fuel problems such as stuck valves and excess pressure.

    But we digress. Sorry.

    PE
    Solid fuel rockets are relatively simple and reliable. They are also lower performance, cannot be throttled, and cannot be stopped once they are started. And their fuel manufacture requires some nasty stuff. There is a reason liquid fuel rockets have been used for the really big payloads, despite their complexity.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #90
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    If it was black spots, chances are it was an emulsion problem.

    PE



 

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