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  1. #21

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    Here we go again, Bill.... but if Galen himself couldn't figure out how to use a grad filter without the end result looking ridiculously phony ...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    ... I'm getting prints the same look as Ciba much more easily now by using Ektar film and printing it on Fuji Supergloss. Masking is needed only about 30% of the time. With Ciba it's 100% of the
    time. Plus Ektar gives you about one stop more range each direction than Provia. You can get even more latitude with more typical color neg films like Portra 160, but you sacrifice to a considerable extent the clean saturated hues typical of chrome films or now Ektar (Porta is basically engineered as portrait film first, other things second)... Printing color neg in your own darkroom
    is much easier than printing Cibachrome.
    Thanks for the comment. I haven't even begun to look at masking, and wouldn't know the first thing about doing it. I would imagine, based on the work I've had done, and my conversations with the lab, that they know. The tech who does all their B&W printing has been doing it for 20+ years. When I was asking him about it, he said the Ciba tech is one of the best he's seen.

    I've gotten some really nice photos with Portra, but as you said, they were portraits and the saturation wasn't there for the look I want in my landscapes. When the photos included outside elements, they seem to lack something. I have a box of Ektar for 4x5 I plan to use for autumn shots, I've been hanging on to it for a couple months just for this time. The shots I've had with it in 35mm have been quite nice, so I'm excited to see it large!

    Part of the draw of slides, for me, is as you said the clean saturated look, that feeling of reality in your hands. Another part is, learning something new, and mastering it to the best of my abilty. It's part of my learning and travel through photography. As for developing color films and printing in color at home, I can't do that right now. That will have to come later, when more space is available to allow for proper process control. For my B&W work, it's enough. That time will come, then I'll have something new to work on.

    Thanks for the information and the encouragement regarding Ektar.

  3. #23
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Masking will not save swathes of deep, black shadow on Ilfochrome. This is especially true with contrasty emulsions like Velvia (less so with Provia). Nor will it save blown highlights. Look after the exposure at the time of exposure, in-camera and don't rely on quick-fixes in the print stage. It must be said this takes experience — a lot of it, judgement and understanding of the light and its effect on the scene. You are bound to be very disappointed when initially getting a handle on balancing highlights and shadows, but it will come easily and naturally to you if you expose the film in the conditions it was designed for.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  4. #24
    kintatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    ... Look after the exposure at the time of exposure, in-camera and don't rely on quick-fixes in the print stage. It must be said this takes experience — a lot of it, judgement and understanding of the light and its effect on the scene. You are bound to be very disappointed when initially getting a handle on balancing highlights and shadows, but it will come easily and naturally to you if you expose the film in the conditions it was designed for.
    That was my initial concern. The 2 rolls I shot came out almost perfect. The shadows had some black and the highlights had some white, but the balance what almost exactly what I saw, and the images have the feel and impact I was shooting for. I placed the brightest area at Z VII and let the rest fall where they may. A couple portrait ones had some blocked highlights, but that was considered prior to exposure, and the picture is quite nice.

    So, I I find myself shooting as I described, I will try to keep the highlights to a resonable level and work from that. Much like you described in your initial reply, I think that basically entails metering for about Zone VII-ish and Zone III-ish and averaging the 2 readings. For instance, if the highlights are at 200 c/ft2, and shadows are at about 15, then shoot about 1/60 at f/8 for Provia 100, which would place about 50 c/ft2 at Zone V-ish, and the highlights at Zone VII, with the shadows at Zone II. Anything that falls outside that range can be taken for lost, and therefore, important areas must be kept within that range. Much like the zone system, but slightly more in line with keeping values within the usable scale of the reversal film.

    I hope that's right, as it seems to be the gist of everyone's advice!

    Thank you!

  5. #25
    kintatsu's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention that my meter is the Gossen Starlite 2. It allows me to place values or to sample the scale of values within the scene, which allows for greater awareness of the scale the photo will present.

  6. #26
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    If you're getting the results you're after, don't change anything. :-)
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  7. #27
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    Your exposure should be governed by knowledge of the film's dynamic range (in particular reversal film); once you have established that, then the meter will guide the way. This is the major problem where photographers do not become clued up about the film they are using, relying instead on what the meter is telling them and the film delivering an unexpected result. There is room to experiment, increase and reduce exposure but as I said before this is dependent on experience of how the film is reacting to your metering: it's a completely different (and I might add, much more reliable) affair than in-camera meters, that's the fun part: essentially we are smarter, but we still have to learn to be smart!
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  8. #28
    kintatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Your exposure should be governed by knowledge of the film's dynamic range (in particular reversal film); once you have established that, then the meter will guide the way. This is the major problem where photographers do not become clued up about the film they are using, relying instead on what the meter is telling them and the film delivering an unexpected result. There is room to experiment, increase and reduce exposure but as I said before this is dependent on experience of how the film is reacting to your metering: it's a completely different (and I might add, much more reliable) affair than in-camera meters, that's the fun part: essentially we are smarter, but we still have to learn to be smart!
    Thanks for the reminder. I'll have to waste some to get the knowledge, but it should be worth the loss.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Your exposure should be governed by knowledge of the film's dynamic range (in particular reversal film); once you have established that, then the meter will guide the way. This is the major problem where photographers do not become clued up about the film they are using, relying instead on what the meter is telling them and the film delivering an unexpected result. There is room to experiment, increase and reduce exposure but as I said before this is dependent on experience of how the film is reacting to your metering: it's a completely different (and I might add, much more reliable) affair than in-camera meters, that's the fun part: essentially we are smarter, but we still have to learn to be smart!
    Very true, what a good post, I agree entirely.
    Ben

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