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Thread: E6 on Rotary

  1. #1
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    E6 on Rotary

    I am interested in doing some cross process C41 in E6 Chemistry.

    Anyone processing E6 on a rotary and any tips or experiences you want to share.
    I have only done E6 myself in the 80's and it was on a huge Refrema dip and dunk.

    I am most interested in huge pushes of Fuji 160 colour negative .

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    I have only done E6 in a rotary and for me it is completely safe, but a bit boring to do. I use a JOBO processor, unfortunately only the CPE2 version and not the larger one with more bottle space for water rinses.

    I don't know what processing kit you will be using but the latest from Jobo on their website suggests different 1st processing times for FUJI film and any other film not made by FUJI. I use a Tetenal kit and I give the 1st development 7.5 mins if I use FUJI and 6.5 mins for any others. (as per the Jobo guide).

    The only certain other E6 film at present apart from FUJI seems to be the one marketed under the Rollie banner. Agfa Precisa has made a come back and as this is supposed to be reincarnated Fuji Sensia. I have processed two cassettes of this, one at the 7.5 min time and the 2nd at the 6.5 min time. I can say the 7.5 min time gave by far the best results with the other processing time the slides were more saturated but had a magenta cast.

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    wildbill's Avatar
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    bob, I do it all the time and I don't treat it any differently than any other process.
    preheat the film-filled drum on the machine.
    I set my temp slightly higher than 38 degrees and always leave it at that.
    don't do the final rinse in your drums as it's said to not wash out well.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

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    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Precisa is Provia not, unfortunately, Sensia. It's still a good bargain price wise compared to "labeled as Provia" but I'd love to have a more moderate contrast E6 film available. I've almost shot up my frozen stock of E100G.

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    I do E6 in a CPP2, but I've not tried it for cross-processing; there's a section in my FAQ that explains how I do it (including prewashes, etc), but it's not much more than following the (Fuji 5L kit) instructions with some recommendations gathered here from PE etc.

    What's your reasoning for using E6 instead of C41 to do your massive push? Do you still want a negative, or are you aiming for a strangely coloured positive? Were you planning on using E6 CD as the only developer, followed by bleach+fix? I'm not sure what the activity level of E6 CD is nor what would be a good processing time for it as first dev since it's designed to run approximately to completion. Colours will be strange, what with it being CD3 instead of CD4.

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    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I am looking for a strangely coloured Positive.... In the 80's when I mangaged a E6 lab, this was all the rage for fashion with some very lovely results.
    I am really into solarization and how it works with colour and BW, this massive push effect really messes up the colour pallette and different C41 films will give
    different effects.

    All my colour work now and in the future**personal** is going to be tri colour pigment prints over pt pd, I am making a rather large collection of images to work in this process.
    I am aware that it will take me years to get perfect colour balance prints, so rather than fight it , I have made images less than perfect in colour / contrast which will allow me to work away and play without the snobs looking at my balance and say *** hey I can do this better colour on my inkjet paper*** which would then force me to reply ***go f... yourself*** .
    I have purchased camera film and ortho film off different sources and have proven to myself that I can make separation negatives for the colour and also pretty wicked pt pd base negatives... Using old style registration systems and NuArks with pigments I plan to go to hog heaven and make colour prints till the day I die.

    If you go to www.patersoncarnie.ca and look in the colour section of my side of the site you will see where I am going.. The prints are a bit less saturated than what you see on screen...

    These C41 in E6 images have this look , but I can control the colour pallette and be complimentary to what I already am working on. My next shooting sessions will be guitars dipticked together by using an old Graflex which has been juried rigged with two lenses, so I get doubles, which is in my still life metal series.

    I have a Fuji Account and can have E6 chemicals in here tommorow but before I do that I am interested in hearing what others are doing and any hints before I start.

    thanks

    Bob






    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    I do E6 in a CPP2, but I've not tried it for cross-processing; there's a section in my FAQ that explains how I do it (including prewashes, etc), but it's not much more than following the (Fuji 5L kit) instructions with some recommendations gathered here from PE etc.

    What's your reasoning for using E6 instead of C41 to do your massive push? Do you still want a negative, or are you aiming for a strangely coloured positive? Were you planning on using E6 CD as the only developer, followed by bleach+fix? I'm not sure what the activity level of E6 CD is nor what would be a good processing time for it as first dev since it's designed to run approximately to completion. Colours will be strange, what with it being CD3 instead of CD4.

  7. #7
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Thanks- I never wash on machine, the jobo basically sits over my sink and I have a wash system going while I am processing the next batch.

    I am thinking my pushes may be an issue for exhaustion of the chemistry.
    this is an issue with PMK on rotary, and I fixed the issue by splitting the developer into two distinct baths , I am thinking
    this may be the case with what I plan to do.

    Why are you using a higher temp?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    bob, I do it all the time and I don't treat it any differently than any other process.
    preheat the film-filled drum on the machine.
    I set my temp slightly higher than 38 degrees and always leave it at that.
    don't do the final rinse in your drums as it's said to not wash out well.

  8. #8
    polyglot's Avatar
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    I'd suggest getting the Fuji 5L kit (if they stock it locally) and giving it a bash. Since you have a CPP3, not much is going to go wrong if you follow the instructions. Since your end result is going to be non-standard anyway, I suspect that any little subtleties of running traditional E6 that we could maybe tell you are not really going to be relevant.

    Something you might want to play with is changing the pH of the CD step. That gives you hue shifts with E6 film, with the axis of the shift depending on which film you use. I think most Fujichromes shift along the blue/yellow axis with pH and the Kodaks do something else. Might be interesting, but it is a global hue shift rather than the subtle realignment of colours you get with cross processing.

    Have you considered using Digibase film? It's C41 with a clear base, no orange mask. Might make a less-obviously-crazy positive but still with some clearly unusual colours. And there's that recently-released Lomo fake-IR stuff which has the green-sensitive dye coupled to the wrong channel; might be even more (?) interesting if cross-processed.

  9. #9
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Interesting you mention the ph of the CD ... a great way to colour correct I would say, and who would know what I am doing.. good tip.

    I think Ron M would give me the mad chemist award, I think he would cringe with all the adaptations.

    I am only interested in the Fuji films.. basically a supply thing ** my lab purchases direct and the Fuji Headquarters is 30 min away.We have a fantastic relationship with them and Kodak has pretty much given up the ghost in my neck of the woods. I like to buy in bulk and our discount is great comfort. Introducing other Manufacture films right now is not in my plans , as I will exhaust my options with the Fuji Product.

    I use FP4 for all my black and white, and do plan to get some ortho 25 so I can solarize in red safelight and see my effect immediately.. ie pull the neg sooner or later.. I do this with my paper prints all the time ...

    I will need to figure out which Fuji film works best for the E6 application. but once I get the right one I plan to stick with it. I only use 4x5 for this application and I am pretty liberal with the amount of film I will shoot in a given three day period...


    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    I'd suggest getting the Fuji 5L kit (if they stock it locally) and giving it a bash. Since you have a CPP3, not much is going to go wrong if you follow the instructions. Since your end result is going to be non-standard anyway, I suspect that any little subtleties of running traditional E6 that we could maybe tell you are not really going to be relevant.

    Something you might want to play with is changing the pH of the CD step. That gives you hue shifts with E6 film, with the axis of the shift depending on which film you use. I think most Fujichromes shift along the blue/yellow axis with pH and the Kodaks do something else. Might be interesting, but it is a global hue shift rather than the subtle realignment of colours you get with cross processing.

    Have you considered using Digibase film? It's C41 with a clear base, no orange mask. Might make a less-obviously-crazy positive but still with some clearly unusual colours. And there's that recently-released Lomo fake-IR stuff which has the green-sensitive dye coupled to the wrong channel; might be even more (?) interesting if cross-processed.

  10. #10
    wildbill's Avatar
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    bob, the little graduates (which I use for rinses only) don't get up to 38 degrees if the machine is set for that. I imagine that the temp in the drum doesn't get to 38 either. As long as you always use the same temp, you'll get consistent results. I have guts from an old cpa that I mounted into a cooler that I use for heating things up as well since I don't have a thermostat controlled faucet.
    I mix my chems, put the 1 liter bottles into the machine, and fire it up for about 2 hours to get everything up to temp.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

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