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  1. #1

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    C-41 film in C-22 chemicals

    Hello everyone,

    Just been talking to a friend about colour film processes, and we both wondered what could happen if you developed C-41 film in C-22 process chemicals.

    I can imagine this having been a problem in 1972 when Kodak brought in C-41 to superseed C-22 and how they used weird/cool cassettes to warn off most processors, but i'm sure a few slipped through to the C-22 batches now and again. Would there be massive colour shifts and under/uver development, or just mildish tints?

    If I can mix up the chemistry I might even give it a shot as I've been told C-22 is "VERY EASY" but I won't hold my breath.

    Thanks for any replys Mike

  2. #2

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    This question seems to be asked over and over. What you will get is poor color fidelity and color cross-over between the layers. This is due to different chemistry including a different color developing agent than the one recommended. If you can mix up the chemistry then why not use C-41.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 04-13-2014 at 08:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  3. #3
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Color fidelity is just one of the issues you will encounter, and one that can be mostly corrected in digital post processing. In fact I have heard from people that they process C41 film in RA4 chemistry (cheap!!! ) and allegedly get decent results after scanning (obviously they don't enlarge optically).

    The bigger problem that I foresee is color stability. A lot of effort has been spent on color processes to obtain long term stable colors, and anyone looking at 30 year old color prints (faded, strong color cast) can confirm that this effort was very, very necessary. These days Kodak and Fuji claim that properly C41/E6/RA4 processed materials are more or less archival for many decades.

    But if you cross process, you throw all this effort away and are completely on your own. Unless your images are for immediate consumption only (read Lomo), I'd stay away from incorrect processing.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  4. #4

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    I almost always do my serious stuff in black and white, usually Pan F Plus, and a bit of colour stuff using the odd roll of slide film and Kodak Gold. I was just a bit curious as I have a couple of rolls of ultra cheap (£1, ~$0.60) film to play with and wasn't satisfied with how it came out of C-41 (Very pale colours, but quite nice for beach scenes oddly).

    I might try it if I can get the chemicals cheap, but that's doubtful, just a thought though

    Thanks anyway - Mike

  5. #5

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    You'll struggle to find the required CD-3 (and indeed CD-1, CD-2 and CD-4) at all nowadays in the UK, since Silverprint stopped carrying it. You'd have to get it from someone like Moersch in Germany, and it wouldn't be cheap (shipping) ...

  6. #6
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    C-41 film in C-22 chemicals

    Too bad you're not in the US, CD-3 is easily had here, and then I would send you a few acutely C-22 rolls you could test (and one I would like processed that's been sitting in my fridge... hehe).

    I also don't see this question often, I see the reverse, film that's C-22 souped in C-41 and how to do that correctly, but not the other way around.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #7
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llamarama View Post
    I almost always do my serious stuff in black and white, usually Pan F Plus, and a bit of colour stuff using the odd roll of slide film and Kodak Gold. I was just a bit curious as I have a couple of rolls of ultra cheap (£1, ~$0.60) film to play with and wasn't satisfied with how it came out of C-41 (Very pale colours, but quite nice for beach scenes oddly).
    I am a bit surprised that you got very pale colors. Film which is that cheap is usually consumer film which tends to be more saturated. Is there a chance that this film is way past its expiration date or that there was some processing error?

    Quote Originally Posted by Llamarama View Post
    I might try it if I can get the chemicals cheap, but that's doubtful, just a thought though
    While Moersch may be more expensive that Silverprint, they do have more or less complete stock of all compounds which you need for mixing color developers, bleaches and fixers. Shipping costs within EU are quite reasonable assuming you order more than just a small quantity of a single compound. The main question is if you want to order all these chemicals for just a single experiment with quite uncertain outcome ...
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  8. #8
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    I am a bit surprised that you got very pale colors. Film which is that cheap is usually consumer film which tends to be more saturated. Is there a chance that this film is way past its expiration date or that there was some processing error?



    While Moersch may be more expensive that Silverprint, they do have more or less complete stock of all compounds which you need for mixing color developers, bleaches and fixers. Shipping costs within EU are quite reasonable assuming you order more than just a small quantity of a single compound. The main question is if you want to order all these chemicals for just a single experiment with quite uncertain outcome ...
    I highly disagree that consumer film is MORE saturated, I've NEVER experienced that, it's always the other way around, consumer film is dull compared to pro film from my experience.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #9

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    Thats a shame about the CD-3, I'm guessing it's not just a case of souping chemicals like Parodinal or Caffenol?

    It's Agfaphoto Vista Plus 200 if anyone's interested, made in Japan, so perhaps a variant on an old Agfa/Fuji emulsion? Expired 2015 so it *should* be fine, but it was stored near some of my harsher chemicals by mistake, so that may have affected it. I'm not sure, but I liked the effect and I haven't been able to reproduce it since.

    I'm on a bit of an obsolete film trip at the minute, so it'll probably pass in a bit. I'll keep an eye out for old C-22 kits though, may be useful and old photography stuff like that pops up reasonably regularly at an antiques fair close to me every now and again.
    Last edited by Llamarama; 04-14-2014 at 07:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #10
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I highly disagree that consumer film is MORE saturated, I've NEVER experienced that, it's always the other way around, consumer film is dull compared to pro film from my experience.
    The saying goes that consumer film was used with cheap P&S cameras which had terrible lenses and inept photographers, so saturation had to be higher to compensate for lens flare and poor lighting. Obviously there are special pro films which are extremely saturated (Velvia, E100VS, Ektar), but there were many very saturated consumer films around that have since disappeared from the market, e.g. Kodak Ultracolor.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

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