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  1. #21

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    In response to no stop or utilitizing the stop too quickly in RA4 allows. . . for dull orange blotches wherever the developer didn't get fully stopped. If not using stop be sure to rinse well for at least a minute. I "remember" this because just last week, I got in a real hurry and rushed the stop. Haven't done that in a while, but there is was an orange almost fog through the middle of the print where apparently I didn't immerse as fully as I had thought.

  2. #22
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcallow
    Ed, I am assuming that you know that any amount of Cyan added to a filter pack is equivalent to an equal amount subtracted from Y and M (eg. +10c = -10y and -10m).
    I always start my filter pack at 50y, 50m, 0c when printing a new neg, but I almost never finish there.
    ekjt, 102,5Y 92,5M is not an unusual filter pack. if 50y,50m is a conventional starting point, 0y, 0m, 10c (the inverse of your filter pack from 50y,50m) would be far more unusual
    Yes, I do know that adding cyan filtration is the equivalent of subtracting magenta and yellow. Necessary if you are already at 0 magenta (or yellow) and need to subtract more.

    I keep a running log of the filtration needed to print. My "start" will be at the average of color correction used for a specific film, exposed with a specific light source (e.g. studio flash), the specific paper and the specific chemistry. That is where I start. Lots more to follow, usually.

    BTW ... Your example ... Wouldn't 00 Magenta; 00 Yellow; 50 Cyan be the inverse of 50M; 50Y; 00C?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  3. #23
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    I thought you did know Ed. I was confused by one of your responces.

    Just as mine is confusing. My example was based upon 102,5Y 92,5M being 52.5y and 42.5m higher than 50y,50m, 0c. This would make the inverse (-52.5y and -42.5m from 50y, 50m) 0y, 10m, 2.5c not the number I quoted.

    There is a reason I sport a fried egg.

    *

  4. #24
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcallow
    I thought you did know Ed. I was confused by one of your responces.
    Just as mine is confusing. My example was based upon 102,5Y 92,5M being 52.5y and 42.5m higher than 50y,50m, 0c. This would make the inverse (-52.5y and -42.5m from 50y, 50m) 0y, 10m, 2.5c not the number I quoted.
    There is a reason I sport a fried egg.
    I purposely left out the Cyan-Magenta-Yellow relationships to avoid confusion. Or, more truthfully, I left it up to someone else to take the bait. :rolleyes:

    I rarely use - or need - cyan filtration. Somewhere around here I have some .jpg images downloaded from the "old" PC I just replaced, of a model illuminated with the light from color transparencies projected through a Hasselblad PCP80 projector, and photographed on Daylight CN. Light source ~ 3600K - but really not too relevant after passing through the tranny. Those prints *needed* an offsetting cyan filtration. When I find those files, I'll post a few in the "Technical Gallery".
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  5. #25
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Found the files and Uploaded to the "Technical Gallery".
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #26

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    Now we have a nice thread on RA-4 filtration, so i'd like to ask you another thing.
    How much do different processing chemicals effect your filtration? I have been quite surprised that the color filtration seems to be quite stable for a given negative-enlarger-paper combination regardless to which chemicals I have used as long as they are fresh or properly replenished. Even changing from Tetenal room temp chemicals to 35 C degree processing with Paterson chemistry made only around 2,5M difference with the neg I was printing.

  7. #27
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Tough one. I usually get hooked on one brand of developing chemistry at a time. For the last 2-3 years it has been Tetenal, for a number of reasons - one of the most important is availability.
    I have used Photocolor and I don't remember any *great* difference between Tetenal and Photocolor.
    There IS a great difference between papers - Ilfocolor, Fuji, Agfa Signum, Kodak ... all require significantly different filtration. I had been using Ilfocolor (present and future status in doubt) for its consistency: *no* difference when using different sizes, very little lot-to-lot variability. I can't say the same for either Kodak or Agfa. I've just started with Fuji Crystal Archive, so I can't really comment on it yet.

    2-3 cc Difference? I've seen about that much between frames on the same roll of film.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #28

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    Test Results
    Yesterday, I was going to test the neg in question with Kodak paper rather than the Fuji I had the problem with. I found something, but I'm not sure it's the problem. When I was pouring the blix into the tray, I noticed a precipitate in the blix. I thought that was the source of the problem; bad blix. I mixed fresh chemistry and did some printing today. I made prints of the color checker frame with the different papers i had on hand. First, I used the filtration I'd gotten good prints with using the Kodak Supra paper - 45M, 80Y - & got a print with no color cast on the first try. Then I tried some Fuji P and got a good print with 15M, 50Y. When I tried the Fuji C I originally had the problem with, I went to 0M, 50Y and still had a slight cyan cast.

    So, now I just don't know. Fresh chemistry, and still the same problem with the same paper. The other papers I tried look ok, so maybe it's the box of paper I got. Since I got good color balance with 2 papers, that does rule out UV fluorescence from the Color Checker. As expensive as they are, I doubted that Macbeth would use a fluorescing ink on them anyway.

    At the very least, I've learned a lot from this. Thanks to everyone for their input and advice.

  9. #29
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Starr
    Since I got good color balance with 2 papers, that does rule out UV fluorescence from the Color Checker. As expensive as they are, I doubted that Macbeth would use a fluorescing ink on them anyway.
    Does sound like a paper issue.

    I was surprised, myself, about the MacBeth fluorescence - more than a little bit.

    I'll see if I can find the original article.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  10. #30

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    RETESTED
    New film processed in new Tetenal C-41, new Tetenal RA-4, same Fuji paper that started this thread. First frame was the Color Checker, rest were daffodils & tulips. I got the color balance of the Color Checker right on. Filtration was 20C, 60Y, 0M. printed one of the flower frames & the color's dead on. The paper's fine, but the filtration's weird. All in all, quite a learning experience.

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