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Thread: Process C-22

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    Process C-22

    I've found another old roll of film (Kodacolor , Process C-22)

    I was wondering if anyone knows anyhting about this process, as i know its quite old. The most info. that I've been able to find on it is that it was phased out in the 1970s, and that the films had to be hardened pre-development.

    Does anyone know about htis process, the chemicals, etc.

    Also, how possible would it be to cross-process in C-41 chems?

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    I don't know about cross-processing C-22 in C-41 or what would be involved in doing C-22 yourself, but as with your disc film, check with Rocky Mountain Film Laboratory if you want somebody else to process the film for you as C-22. I've never used their services, but I've heard good things about them.

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    C22 films run through C41 will strip off the support. C22 films were hardened only to work at 75 deg F and at 100 will fall apart.

    C22 films in C41 at 75 degrees will not work correctly as they were designed for a ferricyanide bleach, not a Ferric EDTA bleach. Therefore, some dyes will not form properly (leuco dyes). C22 films also required benzyl alcohol and CD3 whereas C41 uses no benzyl alcohol and uses CD4.

    Gee, the only thing in common is the stabilizer.

    PE.

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    Hmm ... Ifigured it would be different.

    The temperature problem wouldn't be a major problem, as its easier to process at 75F than it is at 100, less temperature control stuff...

    And ferricyanide bleach isn't terribly difficult or expensive to make.

    I was looking around online, and it seems that RA-4 chemistry uses CD-3, though there's no mention of benzyl alcohol (though I couldn't find any specific formulas). Perhaps modified RA-4 dev. with ferricyanide bleach, at 75f would work?
    Last edited by htmlguru4242; 10-18-2005 at 06:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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    One of the problems with color films since their inception is color cross-over causing unnatural color representation. There are two ways to prevent the color couplers from migrating within the emulsion. Kodak used a method where the couplers were located in microscopic resin beads. Agfa used a different method with a long side chain on each molecule which acted as sort of an anchor. Kodak's C-41 films now use a system similar to the Agfa method.

    Benzyl alcohol is required for C-22 films to penetrate into the resin beads so that the color developer and the color couplers can react to form dyes. Without this chemical you would not get any colors. Therefore, you cannot develop C-22 films in C-41 chemistry.

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    One of the Speedibrews C41 kits (Celer 41 I think) claims to be good for C-22 if run at room temperature.

    I tried it, and the results were pretty poor, but I suspect that's more to do with the film (and the skill of the operator) than the kit - colour film doesn't age well, and any C22 film you have is going to be WELL past it's best. Even if optimally processed the results are going to be pretty bad.

    Ian

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    I realize, of course, that the results will suck, regardless if what I do to control the process. I'm not exaclty striving for good results, but it would be nice to try to get something out of old exposed fil, of shoot some cool distortion effects on the Kodacolor X that you find for $1.25 ish on EBay, or the odd box of AnscoChrome that turns up here and there ...

    What about just adding benzyl alcohol to the C-41 color developer??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch
    One of the problems with color films since their inception is color cross-over causing unnatural color representation. There are two ways to prevent the color couplers from migrating within the emulsion. Kodak used a method where the couplers were located in microscopic resin beads. Agfa used a different method with a long side chain on each molecule which acted as sort of an anchor. Kodak's C-41 films now use a system similar to the Agfa method.

    Benzyl alcohol is required for C-22 films to penetrate into the resin beads so that the color developer and the color couplers can react to form dyes. Without this chemical you would not get any colors. Therefore, you cannot develop C-22 films in C-41 chemistry.
    Gerald, sorry, this is wrong.

    Kodak and Agfa both used side chains from the start. The side chains on Kodak couplers were nonionic but the Agfa side chains were ionic (sulfonic acids or carboxylic acids).

    Kodak couplers were dissolved in organic solvents, while the Agfa couplers were dissolved in mild alkali and then placed directly into the gelatin. As a result, the Agfa couplers tended to thicken the gelatin and make coating more difficult. Therefore, in the mid 70s, Agfa, Fuji and Konishiroku (all users of the Agfa method btw) converted to the Kodak method of long chain non-ionic couplers in organic solvents.

    PE

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    Quote Originally Posted by htmlguru4242
    Hmm ... Ifigured it would be different.

    The temperature problem wouldn't be a major problem, as its easier to process at 75F than it is at 100, less temperature control stuff...

    And ferricyanide bleach isn't terribly difficult or expensive to make.

    I was looking around online, and it seems that RA-4 chemistry uses CD-3, though there's no mention of benzyl alcohol (though I couldn't find any specific formulas). Perhaps modified RA-4 dev. with ferricyanide bleach, at 75f would work?
    The RA4 developer was designed for chloride emulsions. The C41 and C22 developers were designed for optimum interimage with bromoiodide emulsions. I have no idea what would result, but a rebalance of RA4 would require the addition of NaBr, KI and benzyl alcohol at the least. Contact me if you want specifics, and I'll try to research it for you, otherwise I will not go rummaging around in old files.

    PE

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    A couple of years ago at the lab I used someone talked one the techs in running 10 rolls of old c22 though the developer, most of the emulsion came off and clogged the filters and contaminated the tanks. They had to break the unit down and clean it, took all day cost them a lot business and money.

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