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  1. #11

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    If you have enough water, the heat capacity (of a big volume of water) is also enough for 3:15 Min. But in practice a TBE-2 is very, very handy!

    Robert

  2. #12

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    But you can build something similar to a TBE very easily.

    A 50 litre or bigger picnic cooler. Not that expensive new and many people have an old one kicking around. It'll be insulated,have a drain and a lid. All good things.

    A 300 watt fish heater isn't much money either.

    A little aquarium pump to move the water around is an added luxury.


    If you need bigger just get a bigger cooler and heater. Or even two heaters.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanley
    Dear APUG Members,

    With this my first post, I thought I'd say how useful you all are, and long may you run!

    I am investigating the options available for processing 120 colour film at home.

    Much research points me towards the Jobo CPE-2.

    I have read the advice many of you have already posted regarding this unit, and much of it is favourable. One thing I am not clear about:

    Is the Jobo lift required?

    Also, would any of you further recommend the unit for this type of process at home?

    Or are there other options you might suggest?

    As a note, I'd expect to process a batch of 10-20 120 rolls a month.

    I would also like to feel that wonderful feeling that my way of processing film is better than anything else - because I do it, and because I researched the process well in the first place! Oh what utopia!

    Many thanks in advance...
    I'd echo most of what has been written but I don't have a lift and have found no difficulties. The usual recommendation is to start the timer immediately on pouring in the developer and allow 10 seconds for emprtying at the end. The recommended timing of 3 mins 15 secs allows for this 10 seconds emptying.

    I know my timing has been a few seconds out on occasions and I haven't found it to affect the film development.

    If you can use a hot/cold water mixture from the taps then it is possible to ensure that the water bath in the JOBO is within a degree or two of the right temperature by the time the bath is full. So it shouldn't take long to get the developer and blix up to the right temperature. To speed things up even more place the developer bottle into a container with water at say 45 degrees C and put the thermometer into the developer and monitor it constantly, removing it once it is at the right temp then transfer to the JOBO.

    My JOBO temp dial is very accurate and setting it to 38 ensures that the two JOBO thermometers at either end of the bath will read 38. Usually I set to 38.5 to allow for a little decrease when pouring into the dev tank and the 3 mins 15 secs rotation.

    Remember that the dev drum is rotating over the water bath and will lose very little temperature over 3 mins 15 secs. If you are concerned to ensure absolute accuracy then test by pouring water at 38 degrees into the tank, rotate for 3 mins 15 secs and then test temperature at end to check on the decrease. Use this test to determine water bath temperature compensation.

    Don't worry about stop bath, if you use stop, or blix temp. They are not as critical temperature wise or time wise and anyway if developer temp is correct then as these are both in the same water bath they will be the same temp.

    Pentaxuser

  4. #14

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    I'm sure that the Jobo and other types of automated processors are more convenient, but you really need to ask yourself how much use the thing is going to get. If you are doing several rolls a day, or even each week, then yes I'd say it's worth it. Otherwise, you can do well with a plain old water bath and a tempering bath. I've done lots of E6 with a set up very similar to the one Nick described, though I've found the fish tank heater a bit too slow. C-41 shouldn't be all that different, but that 3.5 minutefirst developer time is very short.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by fschifano
    though I've found the fish tank heater a bit too slow. .

    The thing I like about the setup is you can change any part to fit your needs. I'm running a 300 watt heater. If I decided it was too slow I'd go bigger or might even just go with two heaters. OTOH it's easy enough to just add hot water to the cooler.

    A commerical built setup is more of a take it or leave it. It's a lot harder to fine tune things.

  6. #16
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    I've been developing C-41, E-6; EP-2, RA 4 and a little P30 and R3/3000 for, lo, these many moons now.

    A couple of observations:

    I've screwed up and developed in C-41 chemistry at 35 degrees Celsius, instead of the required 38 degrees. That is 3.0 degrees lower than is should be, for the same time, 3 minutes 15 seconds. I print my own color, and I haven't noticed ANY unusual color correction necessary with these negatives. I would suggest that temperature control is NOT as critical as the "everybody knows" perception.
    I've made a similar error with RA-4 going the other way; 3 degrees too hot - with the same results.

    The time of 3 minutes 15 seconds ... It will take some three - four (?) seconds to fill the tank in the processor, but it will take about the same amount of time to empty it .... so the net effect on time will be near nothing. Again, I don't think the process is sensitive enough to be worth agonizing over it.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  7. #17

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    Now this is very useful reading. Thank you all for detailed explanations of the process - much more than I could hope for.

    Redarding the lift - initially I was a bit miffed as to what it did - and since seeing a picture of a tank tipped upwards, and reading the above, I begin to understand how it works in the CPE2.

    I do wonder if manual tipping is as good, but with no CPE2 as yet I'd imagine the following:

    The neg drum attaches with a strong magnet.

    To manually pour out the chemicals one pulls the drum from the rotating engine, pour chemicals out of drum into appropriate collecting vessel, refills drum with next appropriate chemical, attach drum to rotating engine etc.

    The above is brief, and I hope you users of a jobo can follow it.

    Manual would be okay for me maybe, as I have done much developing of B&W 35mm with a Paterson 5 reel tank - timing and pouring you get a feel for with experience. Certainly a focal point of the process!

    I have just printed out some fifty pages of CPE2 instruction from the USA site and when a moment arises I will read through it.

    In the meantime users advice can often be simpler and more to the point than a technical manual.



    Thanks

    Julian (stanley is just delinquent fun!)

  8. #18
    Mick Fagan's Avatar
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    Julian, in a nutshell, you've got it!

    Mick.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach
    I've been developing C-41, E-6; EP-2, RA 4 and a little P30 and R3/3000 for, lo, these many moons now.

    A couple of observations:

    I've screwed up and developed in C-41 chemistry at 35 degrees Celsius, instead of the required 38 degrees. That is 3.0 degrees lower than is should be, for the same time, 3 minutes 15 seconds. I print my own color, and I haven't noticed ANY unusual color correction necessary with these negatives. I would suggest that temperature control is NOT as critical as the "everybody knows" perception.
    I've made a similar error with RA-4 going the other way; 3 degrees too hot - with the same results.

    The time of 3 minutes 15 seconds ... It will take some three - four (?) seconds to fill the tank in the processor, but it will take about the same amount of time to empty it .... so the net effect on time will be near nothing. Again, I don't think the process is sensitive enough to be worth agonizing over it.
    I'm astonished and a little excited to read this. I've always done my b+w in my jobo cpe2 but was always put off doing colour transparency because of the temperature accuracy involved.

    Now I'm thinking of having a go or at least researching more. Cheers!

  10. #20

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    Mick

    You mention use of Fuji Reala. Could I ask what chemicals you use to develop the negs?

    Thanks

    Julian

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